That was part of my point though: FAAD is still an unproven service and its initial results are mixed. I think ICS needs to rethink their pricing structure such that developers have a chance at a better ROI and the site gets more popular as a result before FAAD can command high sticker prices.
Yes, you definitely had some legitimate question, and I honestly was not trying to advertise, I was trying to make a point which came across as advertising, my bad!
I just (as in 20 minutes ago) submitted a request to promote Anomaly on the site but hearing that the price is $600 is a show stopper for me. Despite several very positive reviews (including 4.5/5 by Big Albie here on TA) the total revenue for this game wouldn't cover the cost...(never mind the 6 months of development effort or thousands of dollars invested in hardware to do proper development/testing). I think you need to have a free game with DLC for this to be worthwhile at this price. Or... you have to have already had some good success on the appstore in the first place to afford it. I have no problem with them charging.. but it makes me sad that struggling indie developers are still stuck out in the cold.... hoping for Apple, TA or some of the other major sites to feature them...
The site drives a massive amount of traffic and I have the analytic figures to back that fact, but it's really up to the developers to find ways to utilize them effectively, some will use the site to promote other apps, some will use the site as a way to enlarge their user base and some will use them as a freemium play which is from my experience a solid way to monetize traffic. And First time developer (first app out) with quality apps don't need to pay a dime. Yes it's always a gamble! but using the tapjoy sdk to push paid app is a zero risk solution! the only drawback is that developers obtain a 20% return on their app instead of a 70% return but as I explained previously the 20% return actually helps you generate a lot of 70% return sales!
Kinda makes me wish I ran a successful blog or something, then I could afford to advertise apps for free since I wouldn't be paying for bandwidth costs. I try and support you guys by purchasing the games but sometimes I feel I could be giving back a little more. It's nice to help out the devs I admire, I do it whenever I get the chance.
LOL. so right, starting to sounds like AMWAY for apps to me. Obviously I am naive but I never really gave the whole freeappaday thing much thought and was under the obviously wrong impression that it was about indie developers banding together to get some exposure for their apps and hopefully generate a few extra sales and not the surprisingly very commercial marketing venture it appears to be and I must admit knowing this has somehow soured it a little. For myself if an app is released and it peaks my interest and I want it I just buy it, I very rarely consider price or wait for reviews or price drops\sales and I doubt I am alone in fact a fair chunk of immediate sales and getting into and up the charts for new release apps is most likely generated by people just like me. I imagine continued success then comes from buyers who are less impulsive and prefer to see reviews and feedback from users before committing to buy at full price followed by those who wait for any reported bugs to be ironed out or extra features added with the first update, then a resurgence with the first price drop by those who like a bargain and lastly the eventual push by the $0.99 runout sale. From that perspective I really can't see many if any devs even recouping their cost of participating in this venture, most of the apps so far featured on this and the appvent site that interested me I had already purchased and out of the rest the two I tried that did slightly peak my interest only got played a couple of times and deleted and I am embarrassed to say I can't even remember their names.
The analytics help, when you're considering laying out that kind of cash the first thing you do is a risk assessment or cost/benefit analysis, and obviously, the less of a gamble a given publicity method is, the more it is worth the investment. And that's sort of the key word right there: Investment. Investors expect an acceptable ROI. Sure, there's always risk involved, but the more you can minimize that risk, the better, and FAAD is no exception. While you can show analytics 'til you're blue in the face, you don't yet have the cold hard ROI numbers to back up your claims of "free money." Right now developers just have to take your word for it and, assuming they can get it, the word of those who have already had their apps featured. To the latter, the responses they will get from those devs collectively isn't going to be encouraging. To the TapJoy proposition, I know there are plenty who may be fine with that sort of thing, but I'd never use a publisher or any service that would end up making more off my work than I would. Maybe if I made a throwaway app to be used exclusively for publicity purposes, but otherwise I'd rather take my chances.
ANY help is much appreciated and as a dev I am thankful for opportunities to push my apps. Sometimes someone with traffic on his site or a larger Twitter follower base steps up and that's huge. However, I definitely value paid services as well. It is great having access to a structured and scalable option when all the "free" services you as a dev can reach out to have a monthlong queue of requests. Just 2 cents. Peace Markus
This is the absolute truth right here. I don't think it can be phrased better than this. There has to be a proper ROI that can be verified by other users. By the sounds of those on this forum, the entire TapJoy process reeks of scam. From the "free money!!!11" offer, to the caps-lock responses, and the poor English. Scam. Scam. Scam.
Any developer can contact me directly through the contact page and I will give them anything they need, some stats are already out on the traffic front Reign of Swords #60 in the entire App Store in 24H, and all of our apps broke the top 100 in the game section! I will have a press release with all the figures out for our first week on Monday! Below is our traffic until january 20th! It's all out there in the public http://www.quantcast.com/freeappaday.com
Alright I apologize for not being more patient with you Johannes, tapjoy works that way 1. textplus business model is to acquire customers since they have an add-funded business model 2.The more download texplus can generate the better since they will recuperate their investement by pushing ads through their application 3. They pay tapjoy 25cents for each download that tapjoy generated 4. the end users who wants to download more assets (turrets) from tapdefense can do so by getting points by downloading apps through the tapjoy store in tapdefense 5. they can opt to download free apps (less points) or paid apps (more points) 6. Each time a gamer download for instance textplus he gets enough points to buy one map. 7. Texplus account at tapjoy gets debited by 25cents which is fine with texplus since they are going to generate more cash from the app through ads and actually make a profit from the transaction in the long run so everyone in the transaction is satisfied! 8. now if you have you paid app instead of the free app in the tapjoy store, you will have to pay 50% of the cost of your app each time tapjoy generates a transaction for you. 9 Apple gives you back 70% at the end of the month so you net 20% 10. I give you that you only make 20% from the game but it allows you to generate an additional sale that you would not have achieved otherwise which eventually helps you in the rankings which improves your visibility which allows to generate more 70% downloads... so there is no losses in the process it's simply a delayed transaction...through tapjoy you are simply making less money per transaction but you are making more downloads which improves your overall ranking This is the best I can do! So when you combined this with a lot of visibility from FAAD, the combined effect is simply tremendous, so I recommend to all developers to integrate Tapjoy in combination with FAAD to achieve great results, but they first need to fully grasp the concept before integration and it's really up to them at this point! Again this is when you opt for the freemium business model, as I mentioned before it's up to developer to decide what they need to do with the traffic! Some are using it to obtain a new user base,that they will be able to reach down the road through game updates to inform them about an upcoming game!...so it's like reaching 30k to 80k users instantly to inform them that your new application will be out soon! and that cost you $1200 to directly reach that user base, now it's up to developer to decided how much they are willing to pay to reach a userbase of 30k to 80k user instantly but I think that' ll cost you a lot more than $1200 if you were to use any other mean! I am trying to provide means to survive in a tough environment, not all strategies will work for you, you simply need to discover which one is more efficient for your business model and your goals. But for FAAD to work App Quality is essential not only to make sure that the visitors will come each and everyday, but to also ensure that the developer has the best chance to succeed! So clarification: 1.FAAD provides a lot of Traffic 2.There several ways to utilize the traffic efficiently ( promotion of future apps, Freemium business model, pure discovery) 1. No it is no it's not guaranteed that you will make more sales at the end of the process it's up to the developer to discover what is more adequate for his own application 4. Yes Tapjoy provides a risk free guaranteed install solution
When ICS first came here (I was one of the first people to welcome them), they were kind, warm, and kinda 'young.' They came here not knowing much, and almost in a sense lost. And yet, I had a lot of respect for them. But that respect soon turned to disappointment, and then to better hatred. A little harsh, yes, but completely true. Having one of their numerous promo contests, I entered, and was hoping to win. Alas, I didn't, but they still sent an apologetic PM, stating that they'd enter me in all future contests. I, thankful, wrote back, saying thanks, and moved on. 4/5 months later, I have still not gotten a promo code for their game, but have still yet been sent with PM after PM after PM after PM after PM after PM after PM after PM after PM after PM after PM after PM after PM after PM after PM after PM after PM after PM after PM stating something along these lines: Navy Defense is close to being in the top 100! Tell your friends... I wouldn't mind if that was once or twice, or even five times, as long as they did it in a courteous manner with respect. But alas, they did not, and continued to spam my inbox with their marketing crap. I absolutely loved the Appvent Calender, and actually, most days bought the lite version of the free game, and if I really liked it, bought the full version when it went back to full price. Why? I too am an indie dev (among running my own novelty shop with a few of my friends) and know the pain and joy of running a small business. Although only 15, I understand that money is tight, and thankfully do not need to make a living for my self yet. But I do believe that it is both unfair, cheap, and just morally wrong to kick someone when they're down. Take Haiti for example. The business I'm running with my friends is donating all sales for the next month to Haiti. We hope to raise close to $2000. MindJuice among other indie devs, who are struggling to make a living themselves, are funding money through sales out of the goodness of their heart to help out ones who are in worse situations than themselves. I personally think that that characteristic has been what has driven the human race this far. Think, if during the tsunami of 2004 if the worldwide community join forces and helped those in need. Not only would the current world be different in ways unfathomable, but the gap between the rich and poor would widen exponentially. Maybe it's just me that feels this way, but I truly think that it's time to gather forces, one way or another. Bravetarget, I see where you are coming from, and you too are trying to make a living along with the hundreds of thousands of other indie devs. But has it come to the point where one has to use sleeky, sly, and just plain wrong tactics to gain the upper hand? Is this really what the world has come to? What ever happened to 'got your back,' and 'hand in hand?' Now it's: 'you're better than me. you must be elimatedddddd' and 'you workk very hard, but me smart and I make plan to get money from youuuu.' REALLY? ICS, I have completely lost my respect in you, and this last 'plan' of yours has really thrown me over the brink. It's people like you that cause corruption and scandals. People need to be warm hearted and supportive in order to succeed. Like the ancient proverb, 'karma's a bitch, and what goes around comes around, so you better straighten out your life quick, or it's down to hell with you.' ICS, this all may seem perfectly fine to you, but place yourself in one's shoes, and think of things from the other side. And please, stopping spamming the same shit about tapjoy this and ALL CAPS BAD EGLSIH that... Atleast change the wording. Good night, Ty
I did, and they continued onwards. And one thing I forgot to mention: I think it's really horrible that ICS has gone from a really nice company, to one of those crap Asian (No offense) companies that create thousands of crap boob apps with names 111AAA Asian boobs to get on the top of the list. PM he just sent: I did not know that you felt that way, and I am trully sorry to hear that! 1. which contest are you talking about? 2. a contest is a contest there are hundreds entering few people win 3. I though that you would enjoy the FAAD site but it seems like it was not enough to satisfy you, because I though gamers would enjoy to receive free apps At least Happy New Year! Atleast he's honest to a point. My response ICS: You had around 10 'contests' where I was 'entered' each with around 50 promo codes each. So you're saying that you had over 500 members enter? Highly unlikely unless you spammed abunch of random users. I do enjoy the FAAD site, I just don't like the morals and ethnics behind it. I admit it's a really good idea, but it's presentation is what ruins it. Although free apps are really cool, having requirements, special offers and special ratings are not. Fix your morals, and my opinion will go straight back to the first time I met you.
The price for involvement with FreeAppADay struck me as quite high when I started reading this thread. I was feeling a bit of your concern. However: -This was a bit over the top. I'm grateful for the work done with appRelief. But let's not compare anyone's motivations or anyone's plight as a developer with anything close to the monumental tragedy in Haiti. I know that's not what you were intending, but it hit a sour note with me. MOVING ON... As a simple consumer, I fail to see any collusion or conspiracy here. This is not like going to the auto mechanic and being charged for work that has already been done without your consent. You asked to take part in this program, and you were told the price. The price was high, and you felt it was unreasonable. That's fine. But you lose nothing, other than some respect for the promotion. Maybe you feel you lose competitive edge (or not) to those who can afford such a gamble. But just as the prices were not listed up-front on the website, neither did it promise up-front that it would level the competitive playing field simply because you're all in some indie fraternity. Find an instance of a developer being told the price AFTER the transaction, or an instance of a participating developer being told NOT to discuss the price of participation, and then you'll really have something. As it stands, this just seems like the case of a business model that you feel violates your personal ideals. That's fine. God knows there's a proliferation of such to be found. Still, why not take up a complaint with your "indie brethren" who have taken part in this thing for not fully disclosing the price, or the risk, or their results? Do they OWE that to other indie developers as well? Or are they also just business people, free to act however they decide? Again, I don't see any abject effort to conceal that there is money changing hands. Anyone could have enquired regarding such information or come forward at any time to detail those facts, and perhaps that should have been a role for ICS to fill, but I see advertisements and promotions everywhere, in all walks of life, and I don't feel that any of them are obligated to disclose the transaction fees involved. So, at any rate, NOW WE KNOW. Now, on to whether this is effective as a promotional tool. I feel that it IS if you have a very good game to promote. I got MiniSquadron for free during the AppVent promotion, (warning: pseudo-advertising ahead) and I loved that game. As such, I have told unknown numbers of people that it is a great game and well worth a purchase. I continue to do so. This has likely resulted in sales. There are other games which I downloaded for free that I found no interest or enjoyment in at all, and they in turn received no "free promotion" by my personal word of mouth. Read some of the threads regarding the AppVent calendar or FreeAppADay. There will be a post in which someone will say, essentially, "All those games were crap." And these posts are usually followed by posts listing games that people really enjoyed, still play, recommend, etc. All this word-of-mouth promotion is likely as effective as any banner ad, or etc. So some games will likely benefit, and some will not. But that is a risk that is part of business, isn't it? A brick-and-mortar business decides to invest in a new paint job and new sign in order to improve curb-appeal. Can they guarantee return on investment? Not really. Or they distribute coupons. That can cut into profit margins. But in either case, if the business has confidence in its products and its strengths and weaknesses, it can take certain risks. So, putting your game up for free IS a risk. Especially if there is a very high up-front cost. But if you have confidence in your product, it may be a risk you are willing to take. But again, you weren't forced into any decision uninformed. Your interest was drawn in with a very vague explanation of the service and transaction, but no one forced your hand. You are free to feel mislead, but certainly not defrauded. One thing that I certainly feel is inappropriate is ICS's encouragement of users to rate games highly for participating in the FreeAppADay promotion. If promising good reviews is part of the lure to developers, and if ICS is coaxing forum members into providing those reviews because they will result in better games (and they are), then this is manipulative, to say the least. Anyway, these are my thoughts as a consumer. Sorry to blabber on so long. Best of luck to all.
I'm in no way mad that I didn't win. In fact, I ended up buying the game to support you, and enjoyed playing it. I just feel that this entire FAAD site should not be run by a monopoly.
Sure but $600/1200??? Thats $18,000 to $36,000 a month - thats web host & a very nice profit not to mention the free advertising the founders get for their apps. TA doesn't charge for its front page stories (does it???) but I gather your making money with the banner ads and click throughs.... I would have expected a similar model - especially considering that the free apps are generating the hits! Of course it is their right to charge if they like - but something isn't right when "everyone" thinks that this is a consortium of indie devs helping each other. It is NOT - its Blacksmith games, ICS, OpenFeint and TapJoy making a lot of money on the backs of those desperate to get some exposure on the appstore.
Nope there is no promise at all! Listen remember this 6months to on years from now, small developers who have not adapted to this new environment will not survive! I was there I know how it is! I discovered tools that can help small developers with good application survive in a tough environment...seriously how can anyone survive 300k apps projected 2 years from now. read my post above FAAD provide traffic and traffic can be utilized in various efficient way and it's up to the developers to figure out what works best for them, I am simply providing the tools! $1200 to reach 30k to 80k potential customers through game updates to inform them about your new application!!! This is cheap very cheap!
To run a business cost money, I provide a useful service to developers and if they use it correctly the price tag can be recoup in days! It worked for me and I am sharing the wealth! It's up to the devs to understand that an app store at 20k apps is different than an app store at 120k apps. If they use this traffic efficiently they will ride the wave alright otherwise well there's not much otherwise! at 120k to 300k apps only the big developers can survive and I think that I have found a way for small devs to strive, and I created an infrastructure around it which cost money! But again we do offer a waver for first time developers with apps with 3 stars and above and I am going to write that on the site to make it all clear! and I am at fault here but the site just got started...
