Give them 7 more days until complaining, Tato said the release date will be revealed a week in advance, so if we don't know by the 14th, then it's unlikely we'll see this before Christmas/the App Store shutdown, but at the moment, there is still 7 more possible days for him to give us a release, although it must admit it's not looking likely right now..
Of course and I don't disagree with you. And I did point out in my op that I believed Tato has shared too much with here, a strategy that I personally would never be comfortable with in the scenario and something I've never authorised when involved in similar circumstances. I do believe that the level of sharing was a mistake. In saying that, I believe that level of sharing demonstrates a passion, drive and pride in the project. Something I'd always encourage.. The crux of the matter is though that of course there has been delays, there has been estimated time scales not met, it has been in development a long time. But you know, that's development, that's how it works out a lot of the time. Not everybody has the resources of Gameloft or EA and every setback has a knock on effect to the next one. Its a fluid process when you're dealing with independents, small teams and limited financing. That's just how it is. In those circumstances, I have every expectation that delays will occur. And while we have gotten estimates on timescales, we have yet to get a definitive set in stone date, therefore no one has been lied to or led up the garden path. Until we get an actual date officially announced, it is always in a date of flux. As we have not gotten an official release date, we have in no way been deceived. And while I agree that everything has two sides, some guy coming on to a forum with no involvement in the development process therefore no direct knowledge of what is going on in the background, is in no position as he has no side. People can either understand what an estimate is and how it relates or not. It still doesn't justify claims of deception or whatever other way they decide to term whatever anger issue they wish to vent. If someone is so "SHOCKED at all this bull" enough to go and register and make a complaint of that nature on a forum, doesn't that surely say equally as much about themselves? What we have here is a simple case of a developer sharing far too much. However, no official release date means no deception in my book and why people feel a need to criticise a developer for sharing too much, along with his own hopes and targets and even details on the setbacks, is totally beyond me. I remember when the thread started first, developers were supported a lot more by people on here. I can pretty much guarantee you will never again see a developer share half as much on here. Partly because, well, publishers for one would be very opposed to that level of sharing and mainly because the level of venomous reaction you will get from people just wouldn't be worth the hassle, even if you're only intent was to use it a form of development blog. The one and only reason I even joined here at all is because it was a useful tool for either sharing or gather information and interacting directly with developers. And it was much more understanding environment. I'd imagine Tato had something similar in mind from the other side. Those days are more or less gone as far as I'm concerned and that's based on feedback direct from developers who are no longer at ease here because of the negativity and lack of understanding. It's not the case for all but there is definite decline and that's what ultimately caused me to reply in the first place. I've stayed away from the thread because, as the lines you put in bold say, I'm happy to kick back, relax and wait for the game. I'm happy to have garnered plenty of insight into the mindset and the process over the years. What I'm not happy about is that if people keep continuing to demonstrate the attitude and tone that has flourished here recently and make no effort to understand the process itself and are happy to sit on the sidelines as self proclaimed experts in game development while denigrating someone whose only mistake has been to share the process with us, well then we can just say goodbye to that developer interaction and head on over to Facebook pages. Everybody is entitled to an opinion, absolutely, but is an opinion that has no actual understanding or comprehension really a relevant one? To the best of my knowledge, that has not always been the case. There has also been personal and personnel changes over the course of the thread and numerous other things that you would understand more than most if you have a project that had to be put on hold, something I understand very well and wish you the best of luck in getting it back on track. And yes, I agree with the Elvis line, I myself haven't commented in a long time (not that the comment would even be relevant) but I have to say I have enjoyed the thread over the years. I've found the insight interesting and have never at any stage felt deceived as others seem to have had. I gravely disappointed at the anger and lack of understanding though. And yes, I know its the Internet, but you know what, if its accepted that people can complain and denigrate, I'm happy to be the one on the other side to encourage, praise and hope for the best.
I like Rip's posts, I think they are both well written and precise in many ways but I will point out, that if a person comes on here and vents his frustration about waiting for a game, that does not reflect on truly who that person is in "real life". This is the internet, and it shouldn't be taken too literally. People vent and get impatient. That is the true nature of the internet and gamers. Generally, gamers can be some of the most impatient people in the world. Their obsessive compulsiveness can get the best of themselves at times. I do think Rip had many valid points that were well thought out and true. Developing is a long process, and depending on the game, it can be a very tedious and pain staking process. Guys, There are thousands of other games to play. This game will release when it's released. We should just let Tato be and share our educated opinions when this is released.
What the hell Johnny? Precise in MANY ways??.?.?.? They are precise in EVERY way!!!!!.....!!!! ....... ..... ....... ..... I kid of course. And I of course agree with what else you say, people do get frustrated and vent. Sometimes one just has show some support and push back a bit. Encouragement and support can be an important part of any creative endeavour and whether in the end one achieves what they set out to or not, I always find its nice to know that some people were rooting for success rather than waiting to see the wheels come off. And obviously everybody has and is entitled to an opinion. So just as others are expressing their own opinion that leans towards the negative side, I'm just expressing my own that hopefully leans towards the positive. Partly for the sake of balance but also because I do believe in supporting ambitious projects (and this qualifies for that category) from small teams and in rolling with the punches when plans don't pan out as hoped. It all eventually works out in the end and it definitely motivates when you have people on your side and some of the stuff here can be very demotivating which just makes it harder. And sometimes its just nicer to be a bit supportive and understanding. That surely isn't a bad thing.
Agreed I wish Tato the best of success with this game because it is an extremely ambitious project for iOS. I'm hoping that this will be on the upper echelon of games on mobile, along with greats like Dead space, Heroes and Castles, Infinity Blade, Modern Combat series, etc...
Phil gives us the insight of a manchild hypocrite who runs home and takes his toys with him when names get thrown, even though he'll do it all day long to other people. He also has deep emotional and trust issues. Please don't use him as an example of the effects of the internet on developers. Use him as an example of the effects of the internet on Phil. Most devs aren't that spineless, and some actually use forum negativity as a means to drive them. Phil "I quit because of the internet" Fish is too much of an anomaly to be used as a general example.
I agree somewhat with you but I've been following this thread since day one. Since then I can remember at least 3 or 4 times where he basically said the game would be out by this time. Even on the first page of this thread there's a picture with siding 2013 on it. Spring was 6 months ago. And that date was for a complete game, which were still not getting until god knows when. And prior to that it was promised many other times. Just read through the thread and you'll see exactly why people are pissed off. I want this game on my device more then anybody here, and will be buying this game and most IAP's when it's finally released. But with that being said I don't blame anyone here for being angry about how things were handled, and I don't think anyone here should be telling people they are wrong for feeling that way. Tato did this to himself. Anyway he said we had his word this would be out by the end of the year. Let's hope his word is his bond.
This was 4 years ago. That is one of many time frames giving. 3 and 1/2 years later and still no full game in sight
My point is that if someone comes here and speaks their mind, they should not have people telling them that they're wrong and supporting tato. It's unprofessional how things were handled. All someone has to do is take 15 minutes and skim through this thread. You'll see EXACTLY what people are talking about.
The project was vaporized 2-3 times and completely & fully redone I would assume. He should of came out with episodes instead of fully redoing the projects... Technology advances but there's no reason to keep redoing the project when new engines come out. Might as well not even make a project at alll .... Technology advances yearly, shoulda just put it out there the first time it was completed. No need to keep redoing it -_- Notice how many times I've said redoing
As an example of what can happen, it stands because it did happen. The key word being "can" and the key circumstance being it did happen. Whatever your opinion of said person, which is obviously extremely negative (whether it's based on personal knowledge of the person or simply what you've read and heard would be interesting and might tell more about my point anyway), is irrelevant because, simply, it happened and if it happened, that qualifies as a valid example of what I was talking about anyway. The film itself was the primary of my point anyway as it demonstrates a lot of the pressures of developing. If you wish to leap on one part of that example (which doesn't represent the whole), well, it kinda shows I was wasting my time in the first place anyway and that any form of communication with anonymous people on the Internet is even more pointless than I originally thought it was. As a side not, another show worth watching is Derren Brown's The Gameshow. It gives indicators of what people are really capable of when a mob mentality and anonymity are involved. Hint, it doesn't bring out the best in people as a whole. Another key point is that I never said it was a general rule or what happens all the time. Again the key word is still "can". Because if it can happen to one, it can happen to others. Perhaps not in as an extreme way but sometimes extreme examples are the only ones people take any notice of. Ultimately you can take it whatever way you choose but I won't be participating in this particular discussion any further as I've learned all I need to from it. And I don't really want to be talking about other people that are not present or party to any of it. As I've said many times, everybody has an opinion and everybody is entitled to express their opinion. There is a social way to do that though and another less social way that people seem to prefer to employ. But to your point, as people are allowed to come here and speak their mind, I am equally as entitled to come here and speak my mind. To say that people "should not have people telling them they're wrong" when speaking their mind is merely saying that people can express their opinion all they want but others that disagree with what they say and how they say it can't. Isn't that contradictory? People can come on and sling all the mud they want but I'm not entitled to express a counter opinion on that? Interesting.
Dude, you basically made fun of the poster. Read your first paragraph. It was way out of line. What are you? Tato's bodyguard? Like I said tato did this to himself. This has been going on for 4 years. Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread. I just want to play the game like most people here. I hope we can get a update soon.
Fastbridge, Just remember You will always find an ass-licker here... Personally I also think there is no excuse for the delay and the silence...
Don't have to read that first paragraph, I typed it in, I know what it says. It questions their expertise in developing, proceeds to list a small sample of the problems that can occur in developing while projecting those problems into a scenario they would be a party to in order to personalise it into to their own circumstance. While, in hindsight, it could have been termed better, it was not an attempt to make fun of an individual, it was an attempt to personalise it to their own perspective and potential circumstances and it seemed like the most effective way at the time. You're also excluding the point that their original post was somewhat derogatory in the first place and I had already conceded that Tato has shared too much information already. However, that sharing of info only becomes a bad thing when people choose to react to it in a particular way and express a derogatory attitude to the developer. In that circumstance, understanding it from the developers perspective and standing up for the developer doesn't make one the developers "bodyguard", it just means one is showing support and understanding and not lowering oneself to the angry poster level. If as you say, one and all are entitled to express their opinion, anger and disappointment, well then one is also entitled to express counter points to those opinions without having to be termed as someone's bodyguard. Freedom of expression of opinion goes both ways. "Ass-licker"? Really? Down to the level of name calling now. Very mature. I'll say it again to be clear. If you follow the principle that people are entitled to express their opinion on the circumstance, well then others are perfectly entitled to express a counter opinion from their perspective. It doesn't make them an "ass licker", it merely means they have a different perspective. Resorting to name calling doesn't make it a productive discussion however. And really doesn't help your point out too much if you need to resort to those levels of discourse.
Considering Tato hasn't been here a while I'm expecting he'll appear in a couple of days with a release
This thread is basically trench warfare between both sides, some of us even changing loyalties here and again.
