Fish Labs Betrayal Megathread

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by adamlax, Dec 8, 2016.

  1. squarezero

    squarezero Moderator
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    Glad to hear that :)
     
  2. Eli

    Eli ᕕ┌◕ᗜ◕┐ᕗ
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    Guys, as we've explained basically every time we've needed to do this with game threads over the years, this doesn't have to do with positive or negative comments, it has to do with the absolute voracity that people who don't like a video game will attack a thread and completely dominate all conversation. To survive, any online community needs to see some level of organic growth. For us, that comes from TouchArcade forum threads often appearing either high up, or as one of the only results when someone searches for a mobile game title on Google.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who downloaded a game that looked cool. You've been playing it, and are either stuck at a certain part, don't understand how a particular system works, or are just curious if anyone has come up with any tips that might expose things you haven't discovered yet. You figure, "Oh I'll look up the game on Google. What's this TouchArcade thing? Oh, neat, a bunch of people talking about this game."

    To retain that person as a member of our community, threads need to hold discussions that are at least on some level vaguely welcoming. In all the research I've done and analytics I've ran, I've yet to really discover any pattern where any significant number of people are specifically searching for some random game to just come tell other people they don't like it. Typical usage patterns seen, particularly in mobile, just lead to people deleting something they don't like and moving on to one of the other countless games they have on their phone- Some that they likely haven't even launched yet.

    In this particular instance, Galaxy on Fire isn't exactly a super relevant series. It's based on a J2ME game that I promise almost no one with an iPhone in 2016 has played. The iOS port hit in March of 2009, then was followed up with a sequel that landed in October of 2010. Both games were released, and had their entire life cycles as supported titles largely before the iPhone even turned into the mainstream device and gaming platform it is today. If you played any of the old Galaxy on Fire games, you are in the absolute minority of the people who will download Galaxy on Fire 3.

    So, while endlessly detailing your absolute disappointment with Galaxy on Fire 3 for a laundry list of reasons that all have to do with Galaxy on Fire 2 might seem like the most important thing in the world as an old school hardcore Galaxy on Fire fan, it's borderline completely irrelevant to anyone who downloaded Galaxy on Fire 3 because they saw it was featured and looks like a cool space game. It's a lot like (if the internet existed then) if you just decided to butt in to a discussion about Final Fantasy IV (Final Fantasy II US) about how the game is total garbage because it's such a massive step back because they took out Final Fantasy III JP's job system. The people who are super stoked to be playing Final Fantasy IV don't care, the job system is irrelevant to them.

    When enough people are complaining about something that doesn't make a whole ton of sense to anyone outside of the hardcore complainers, it creates an environment that's incredibly unwelcoming to anyone who actually enjoys the game. In my organic discovery example from earlier, the person looking for hints, tips, or have a question answered, prior to splitting the thread, would just hit their back button. Why would they stick around, or bother registering just to jump into a thread filled with people who don't like the game they're enjoying, posting such long and intense posts that even the people writing the posts feel they need to preface them with warnings that they're "extremely rude?"

    Call it censorship, or whatever else, but it's for the good of TouchArcade continuing to grow as a community of iOS gamers who enjoy playing iOS games. No posts are being deleted, they're merely being moved into another thread where you guys can go absolutely hog wild extensively detailing all the reasons why Galaxy on Fire 3 is a total piece of shit. It's even linked at the top of the main thread, so anyone who is curious can come find this thread without needing to go hunting for it.
     
  3. adamlax

    adamlax Well-Known Member

    Sep 1, 2013
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    Even though I dislike the game I agree with TA. People that do in fact like the game deserve a thread where they don't have to scroll through comments saying how they dislike the game. I've already posted how much I dislike GOF3 on this thread since it's all people sharing the same views that agree with me. It would be unfair for people that enjoy the game to have to scroll through posts irrelevant to them in order to enjoy reading positive ones. Why this has ecome a big deal I truly don't know.
     
  4. Sabaki

    Sabaki Well-Known Member

    Jun 12, 2012
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    Hmmmmmmmm...this reminds me a lot of the sequel to a game I absolutely adored, Plants Vs Zombies.

    The original was incredible because it allowed gamers to do what they enjoy most, play. No watching timers, no consideration for IAPs and no need to have and defend a stance on F2P.

    You paid for the game and played it.

    So EA buys Popcap and develops this F2P model they painted in shades of Plants Vs Zombies. But the game didn't play the same, it didn't feel right because how every tweak designed to make you buy this or that, affected the gameplay for the worse.

    Here's another franchise I enjoyed playing all those years ago on my Nokia 6680 that's been taken down that same path.
     
  5. dunhila

    dunhila Well-Known Member

    May 6, 2016
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    #85 dunhila, Dec 10, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
    I have never before seen anyone try to defend paid advertisement with such passion.
    Eli if what you are saying is true about user search patterns on the internet than you should delete all of the positive feedback on the Galaxy on Fire 3 thread because I am sure people also don't want to go look at 3 pages of comments about how great the game is(though I am not sure there are 3 pages of positive feedback for GOF3).By your definitions the thread should only contain a question and answer section for the gameplay(for instance-how do the drone that flies with you help you in recovering intelligence and boxes).The problem is if that is what you are aiming for then you can't just apply it to the GOF3 thread because it won't be fair.You have to moderate all threads equally and move all of the negative/positive feedback from each of them and merge them in some mega thread.

    See,that is why when I read you logic it makes me believe that the main reason for removing negative feedback is because of the giant PAID AD that sticks on both sides of the TA site/forum.It could also have to do with the ton of coverage GOF3 has gotten and that DSFishlabs themselves constantly point out TA as a main source for reviews for the game/coverage of the game.

    Now we could pretend that it's not the paid advertisement but that won't help the progress of the TA community(to which you are very dedicated) :)
     
  6. Eli

    Eli ᕕ┌◕ᗜ◕┐ᕗ
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    If you think we are doing this because Fish Labs is buying ads this week, please never come back. (I can help you with that if you want.)
     
  7. dunhila

    dunhila Well-Known Member

    May 6, 2016
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    So forceful removal?Interesting,isn't it?I haven't broken any guidelines/rules but I am getting a ban treat.Even having a conversation against popular opinion seems to be enough to earn a ban in our day and age.Just because you are disproving someone's logic-you get a ban or because he simply won't defend his statement further.

    Anything can get you a ban.
     
  8. Eli

    Eli ᕕ┌◕ᗜ◕┐ᕗ
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    No, if you have so little trust in the admins of this site I'm merely asking you to leave.
     
  9. dunhila

    dunhila Well-Known Member

    May 6, 2016
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    I will stay but the trust does lower when one of them wants to ban you for nothing :) Have a pleasant day either way my good sir! :)
     
  10. sinagog

    sinagog Well-Known Member

    Aug 15, 2014
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    Meanwhile hundreds of thousands die in the Philippines, Syria and elsewhere. But Manticore.
     
  11. Jubelio

    Jubelio Active Member

    Jul 31, 2014
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    Proof right here that you have no clue. The same standard of keeping threads on topic is held for every game thread. It has nothing to do with positive/negative.
     
  12. squarezero

    squarezero Moderator
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    Dec 10, 2008
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    It should be noted that disrespecting the admins and mods is breaking the site rules.
     
  13. Shaun Musgrave

    Shaun Musgrave Well-Known Member

    Jul 8, 2013
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    Ibaraki, Japan
    You're basically saying that we sell favorable coverage for ads. It's an absurd implication if you even pay the slightest of attention to our coverage. It's also one of the most insulting, rude things you could say to someone in our business. I'm sitting here trying to figure out how to make my rent this month because I work for what amounts to less than a dollar an hour because I *care* about doing this work, and doing it well. Meanwhile you're over here suggesting we're selling our integrity over some banner ads. I mean sure, this probably isn't in the written rules of the forum, but man, I'm not feeling particularly charitable to you at this moment either, and I'm only a freelancer.

    Do all of the people who are implying, passively or otherwise, that we are allowing our site to be dictated by ad money and the influence of publishers realize what that would actually look like? There'd be pop-up and pop-under ads everywhere. We would actually do sponsored posts like literally all of our competition does. We sure as hell wouldn't give out sub-3-star scores to games from major publishers. Heck, we wouldn't even waste our time reviewing things from indies because they wouldn't cough up the payola. We would charge for reviews like so many other mobile sites. We would be annoying you with full page ads asking you to subscribe every time you visit. There would be Candy Crush guides every Thursday instead of RPG Reloads.

    Friends, you would know it if we sold out. You would know it bloody well. Because instead of being at the end of my rope from stretching myself thin, I'd be looking forward to an actual day off or two with my family during the holidays instead of balancing everything around how I can keep income coming in during the yearly freeze. I could use my heater to warm myself instead of throwing on a fourth blanket. It sure sounds nice. But we care about what we do here. We all care a lot about TouchArcade. And while we don't agree on every decision, we understand that everything we all do here is try to keep this site as awesome as it can be. You can say the way Eli handled this sucks. You can say you don't see his logic in trying to keep the forums positive through heavy moderation rather as opposed to free anarchy. I don't always see his logic, he doesn't always see mine. That's life.

    But when you come in here suggesting that we're crooked and on the take while I'm sitting here trying to figure out if McDonalds is in the budget this week? It's incorrect, and it's rude as hell. I'm not a moderator, so my words don't carry any implied threat whatsoever. So take it from me, free of any potential unspoken ban insinuations: if you (or anyone else) really think what you've written here is true, I wish you would leave, too.
     
  14. dunhila

    dunhila Well-Known Member

    May 6, 2016
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    There is nothing you can quote that shows disrespect towards a TA admin/moderator.I was simply having a conversation and received a ban treat for it.

    PS:I am leaving this conversation.I am sorry if any admin/moderator felt that I was attacking him personally.I was trying to relay the message that removing negative feedback from a thread for a game that is advertised all over the site-looks a little like censorship.It was an opinion and I see some people before me shared it too.

    As from now on-I will comment only on games that I like in order to comply with the changes to the toucharcade forum of which I am now aware.

    I wish everyone has a great and enjoyable day!I am not a bad person,simply have opinions like everyone else but on here I guess I am not completely allowed to express them for which I am sorry :)
     
  15. pluto6

    pluto6 Well-Known Member

    Jun 21, 2009
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    As a pretty long time site user and someone who has had my share of controversial discussions, I would encourage you to look at the site and its users as a large community of people that you (hopefully) want to get along with. There are some comments and attitudes that are generally not desired and everyone has their buttons. It is ok to be critical, and sometimes even harsh, but it needs to be done in the correct way - and that requires getting to know the community. I wish you well.
     
  16. Oscar Streaker

    Oscar Streaker Well-Known Member

    Dec 20, 2011
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  17. Eli

    Eli ᕕ┌◕ᗜ◕┐ᕗ
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    #97 Eli, Dec 10, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
  18. Oscar Streaker

    Oscar Streaker Well-Known Member

    Dec 20, 2011
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    I think it's evident to many your belligerence and disdain for readers belies a guilty conscience.
     
  19. Eli

    Eli ᕕ┌◕ᗜ◕┐ᕗ
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    Yes I can totally see how you'd get that from not liking people suggesting we're being bribed by advertisers and moving off-topic rants to their own thread.
     
  20. Oscar Streaker

    Oscar Streaker Well-Known Member

    Dec 20, 2011
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    Must be annoying being suspected of such an impossiblility. Lol.
     

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