Chop Chop Ninja...but you are missing the point, at this stage it has nothing to do with ratings, again Creamy Ice came in with 4 stars and making no money and left with 3 stars but ranked #27 in the overall paid app store, so it's just a preference better ratings or more cash! Bottom line you need to fight volume with volume, many strategies which worked a year ago will lead to failure today, indie devs need to anticipate the market. FAAD only works for polished apps, and ~90% of the time developer of high quality apps will generate more income following a faad campaign. Remember you give your app to 1M people and if they like your app they will share it with the other 100M owner of iPhone OS out there it's a pure viral solution! And that is why I am planning on removing the FAAD app from the App Store once it reaches a specific milestones which will be determined by the number of new iPhone OS out there, because you essentially don't want all iPhone users to have the faad app just a portion of them (around 3%) and doing this will actually benefit indie devs with very polished apps. (btw This is a risky strategy for apps with only 3 stars, few ratings and no reviews by other game publications such as TA or IGN etc...) Bottom line developers of polished apps makes more cash with faad which helps them develop more and better apps which overall raises the quality of apps in the app store! Also they can always go freemium in their next development cycle, just check the app store top grossing apps and you'll noticed that freemium apps are among the top grossing apps, so if devs of polished apps develop solid freemium apps in their next development cycle they win, but they still need it to do it the right way and give tones of free valuable content to their audience (it's a conversion rate game!) The market is going towards 300k apps then 500k apps, itunes is only so big and the iphone is only so large. The only other way to make this thing work would be for Apple to limit the number of apps in the App Store, or limit the number of new apps that goes live weekly just like Microsoft does with xbox live, if you don't limit the growth of apps you are bound to have issues with discoverability and volume downloads will be the only way for developers of quality apps to survive, there is no other way around unless you are a large dev with a huge brand, you need to fight volume with volume!
You're always a bit testy, aren't you? Well - if your system is working so good, why these ebullitions? Although I think that I am accountable to none, just let me answer your question: First: I am buying their products instead of downloading everything for free. Second: I am not saving 20-30 crappy bucks a month because I could get these games from FAAD. Third: I give them the money they worked for - very hard, in the most cases - and help them to get a living by writing reviews and recommending their apps to other people who buy them. Fourth: and the most important part - I don't support FAAD. Instead, I am giving the people my opinions about your business. You should get used to it. And last: why should I give you a better idea about promoting something? That's your job. You just need to fix your unstable system. Again: I am criticizing - and since when do have critics to come up with solutions? If I had an idea like the one you've asked me for - I would be rich right now. But that isn't my obligation.
Hi, ICS Mobile, you need to stop posting and make it look as if you are doing developers some big favor, you are not. You run a promotion service and charge for this service, you are not doing this out of some sort of Christian charity. I am all for helping developers but be clear on what you do and how you do it. You found a way to make money off of developers wanting to increase visibilty and sales for their app, do not obscure these facts when you post. Whenever you post, you ignore ceertain aspects of your service and present your company as some sort of Angel or Fairy Godmother to developers, you are not. You just found that, by helping developers raise their apps visibility, you can make money off of it, great, just say that, do not warp what you do into something it is not. This has been my issue, not that helping developers is bad, just the way you present your company and its function in helping developers. You are a promotion company that needs to look at how you promote yourself, not just other developers and I say you do a very bad job of it, me and Vovin are not alone here in our opinion. How the public sees you is how they will see the developers you try and promote. David
My thoughts. Don't you recognize, ICS? The criticism keeps coming. Don't put the whole load on me. There are quite a lot of people who are giving thoughts to this matter. And when I am so wrong, as you say - why are the People agreeing with me instead of you? They are neither dumb, deaf nor blind. Just stop showing me your statistics. I don't trust them if I haven't faked or forged them myself.
FAAd was good for about a week, then the games got boring. I still got emails from them and lately, i agree the games have been great - even better than the start. I must say tilt to live is great. I watched videos and looked at the screens, but they don't do it justice or show exactly what it's like. I wish I could have paid or it now as support for devs.
Nothing to hide here this is a business, yes we are running a business and if you want me to start my sentence with we are running a business sure I could do that! TA is a business too check at the bottom and you'll see some ads, they need the funds to help operate the site as well as give other devs a platform to promote their apps as well as make some profits and by using this site you are helping TA make more profits so let's move on with that please.. Then read my previous post to understand what's going and the issues about the market and feel free to give me some of your insights as well, I love to learn new stuff. I was at E3 and I was talking to some microsoft folks and they told me that they opted to limit the number of apps on xbox live to avoid the current issues with the App Store... but please stop the business business business thing it's getting old.
Well I would have to agree with a lot of Vovin's posts here. FAAD has pretty much convinced me to not buy any more iPhone games. Not that I don't want to buy any, it's just that it feels like there so few titles left in the app store that won't go to free within the next half year. And this is what FAAD is doing to many iPhone users. More and more people are becoming convinced that everything will be free someday, so why bother buying it now? I am willing to support the developers and pay a few bucks for the endless hours of work and dedication that they put into making an iPhone app, but I also don't exactly want to buy a game for $4.99 and see it going free in 2 days. I have all the respect in the world for developers who never let their apps go on sale. For example, Jet Car Stunts has never dropped their price of $1.99, and I respect True Axis for that. It lets buyers know that what they're buying has value and that they will not be angry in the future because it goes to free. Same thing stands with Super Quick Hook, Canabalt, and Hook Champ. I would be pretty happy if more developers promised to never make their apps on sale. So I have a 10 dollar iTunes gift card right now...what apps should I buy? Let me rephrase that...what apps won't be made free by FAAD in the next few months?
If you give your game away for free, you're iTunes rating will drop. This is both a 100% guarentee and common logic. Whether you use a free-app service or drop it to free on your own, the ratings will plummet. This is because you are giving your game away to people who have absolutely no interest in your game in the first place. Devs have only themselves to blame if they don't understand this. It is not FAAD's fault. Nothing can be done to prevent a drop in your iTunes rating, other than to not give your damn game away for free. Bottom line, this one is on the Developers. FAAD really has nothing to do with it. Aligning yourself with FAAD is a double-edged sword, but you should have common sense enough to understand that before you ever partner up with them. For every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction, my friends. FAAD doesn't effect me. I want well polished games. I'm an indie fan only on the absolute high end. Only the best of the best indie games can ever remotely draw my interest. Only a small handful of games that interrest me have ever gone free.
Other publications other devs are putting their stats out not me: http://www.pocketgamer.biz/r/PG.Biz/MouthOff/news.asp?c=20986 I mean read what I wrote below as far my opinion about the market. How about positive and constructive opinions for instance tell me why what I wrote below is wrong and I would love this kind of criticism, please tell me point by point why I am wrong! I want to learn and I'll be honestly happier if you make me change my mind, because not learning is dying and I'd rather die being more informed than less informed. Also the faad app will be removed from the store once it reached certain milestones and why would I do that? just think I could be doing very well by having the app out forever but I will remove it, please tell me why I would want to remove it, to make more cash? that would not make sense right? Below was my analysis please break it down and tell me that I am wrong same with you harplyss, tell me what's wrong I want to know I am dying to know and if you are making solid points,I'll come out of this discussion happier and more informed. Thanks guys "Chop Chop Ninja...but you are missing the point, at this stage it has nothing to do with ratings, again Creamy Ice came in with 4 stars and making no money and left with 3 stars but ranked #27 in the overall paid app store, so it's just a preference better ratings or more cash! Bottom line you need to fight volume with volume, many strategies which worked a year ago will lead to failure today, indie devs need to anticipate the market. FAAD only works for polished apps, and ~90% of the time developer of high quality apps will generate more income following a faad campaign. Remember you give your app to 1M people and if they like your app they will share it with the other 100M owner of iPhone OS out there it's a pure viral solution! And that is why I am planning on removing the FAAD app from the App Store once it reaches a specific milestones which will be determined by the number of new iPhone OS out there, because you essentially don't want all iPhone users to have the faad app just a portion of them (around 3%) and doing this will actually benefit indie devs with very polished apps. (btw This is a risky strategy for apps with only 3 stars, few ratings and no reviews by other game publications such as TA or IGN etc...) Bottom line developers of polished apps makes more cash with faad which helps them develop more and better apps which overall raises the quality of apps in the app store! Also they can always go freemium in their next development cycle, just check the app store top grossing apps and you'll noticed that freemium apps are among the top grossing apps, so if devs of polished apps develop solid freemium apps in their next development cycle they win, but they still need it to do it the right way and give tones of free valuable content to their audience (it's a conversion rate game!) The market is going towards 300k apps then 500k apps, itunes is only so big and the iphone is only so large. The only other way to make this thing work would be for Apple to limit the number of apps in the App Store, or limit the number of new apps that goes live weekly just like Microsoft does with xbox live, if you don't limit the growth of apps you are bound to have issues with discoverability and volume downloads will be the only way for developers of quality apps to survive, there is no other way around unless you are a large dev with a huge brand, you need to fight volume with volume!
ICS Mobile you have a competitor too no? Free game of the day or something? Between you you have even featured "free" games that suddenly STAY free and then depend on DLC to continue - take Astro Ranch for example. Tag Games lost SO much credibility in the eyes of the consumer that if you read that thread many people won't buy another game made by them again. So taking advantage of panic struck developers is not going to help them. You keep bring up that one app - one success story does not make your program a success. It means one app got noticed. Polished games are going to get noticed. If devs have faith in their product they can stick it out and get their deserved reward. But the rush to the top in a day is so tantalizing that devs shoot themselves in the foot and lose credibility with the average consumer by dropping prices in a day or in hours or going free. This debate about the demise of the app store extends beyond your program. Again, you found a way to make money off the app store even if its not via producing apps and that shows some creativity.
+1 I have noticed it is members and not developers that are anti-FAAD. People will whine on TA about losing a few bucks coz of sales or FAAD but the app store is still making more money now than ever before. Early adopters have to pay more than others. I can pay 10 dollars to see a movie now or wait 3 months and see it for 1 dollar on DVD from Redbox or wait a bit longer and see it for free from the library or on TV. If a game is not worth 99 cents to play it now, no one is forcing you to buy it.. wait 6 months and there is a good chance it will go free at some point.
Hi, Hi, ICS Mobile is really about self promotion, under the guise of promoting developers. Now for explaining this, first, name the advertising agency for any popular TV commercial, cannot do it? Right, you are not supposed to be able to, they are supposed to promote the product, not themselves. Issue here is, ICS Mobile uses the "promotion" of developers and their apps to promote themselves. Just read their site and anytime a developer uses the FAAD service, the first thing posted at the top of the description is about the FAAD service. Knowing a little bit on advertising and promotional work, I am very troubled by this. ICS Mobile, if you are good at your job and really help developers as much as you profess, then why the incessant need to self promote at the same time as you promote developers and their apps? I would think, based on your posts, you would not need to self promote this way, but, based on your continued posts, you would say I am wrong. TA and any other sites do advertising but do not self promote within these ads, usually. Sometimes I have seen a discount code or something for a product based on the site where the ad is placed, this is an exception and not the norm though. You have developers, at the top of their apps description place a statement about FAAD, big time NO NO in advertising. In the end, you will do things the way you have but public opinion and the way they view you, will affect your business and the business of developers associated with you. David
I would agree with this and I have even applauded ICS Mobile for their ingenuity to make lemonade out of lemons. But what I don't like is the carrot that is dangled in front of desperate developers scrambling to produce the next best (insert top 10 app here) and participate in programs that may or may not help. Then again - advertising may or may not help, other marketing ventures may or may not help, etc. I have known great devs that quit making apps for the appstore in exchange for other platforms because of the competition. They are great developers with great products. But this is what will happen because they do not want to be reduced to putting a price of free on their work - even for a day. They even said if that is what it takes to be recognized they would rather deliver pizzas. But that is the fault of the appstore. It just all contributes to people's bad taste about the app store when so much goes free. I take a second look at certain dev's new releases thinking - gee they are known for their sales - and if it's not a must have at the time have learned to wait. On the other hand I instantly buy others and if it goes on sale I feel certain (or I can only hope) that the time between my purchase and the sale was worth the money I spent. A dev can do whatever they want with their prices, but the faad carrot and pressure to join the program to garner future success *might* be misleading in many cases. That is what I disagree with.
http://freegameoftheday.com/ http://www.openfeint.com/ http://appshopper.com/entertainment/openfeint http://itunes.apple.com/app/ar-monster/id362702814 The developers that make their apps free that don't list a reason in their description are doing it wrong. That is the fault of developers that refuse to learn what it takes to promote their brand and make money in the appstore.
Yes actually to this - or to put in the effort. Early success stories of the app store have also become pipe dreams to lots of devs thinking just putting out an app in the app store is the answer to instant success.
Hi, The devil is in the details though. The examples you point out do not come here and slant certain facts to twist public perception. Some of those that you point out, provide a continuing service beyond the initial promotion to developers, as in Open Feint? I have no issues with developers giving their apps away for free, I am not a developer. No issues with companies helping to promote these giveaways and charging for the service. My issue is with how the lines get blurred here between ICS Mobile promoting themselves, at times, above the developers they are charging to be promoted. Having a background in advertising, I find the method here a bit troubling. In the end, me having the opinion I have will not change the way that ICS Mobile operates, I know this. This being a public forum, I expressed an opinion on said methods. I have no animosity towards anyone and just spoke of a particular issue troubling me, and it looks, at least one other member here. David
I agree with all the points being made here on Vovin's side, but on the other hand, we have no right to be complaining and criticizing ICS Mobile when us, the consumers, are the ones to blame for our complaints. Why do you think FAAD got such top-tier games as of late, such as Puzzle Quest, Tilt to Live, and Freaking Inkies? It's because we check the FAAD site daily and download the free game. Even if I have little interest in the game I'll download it because hey, it's free, and it's possible to be surprised. If we didn't increase the popularity of FAAD by downloading the games they provide for us, there would not be the abundance of games going free that we have already paid for. The more exposure there is, the better games we get. Again, I'm not trying to argue against anyone's points here, I just believe that if you want someone to blame, it should be the consumers, not the developers or ICS Mobile.
