I disagree pretty strongly with this, having Teleport available means I can make more risky plays (i.e., clear more screens and capitalize more on my other skills), which increases my score indirectly rather than directly. I still think it may be true that Teleport isn't good for high scores, because there is a large fraction of the game (if you get a good start) where it's very easy and there's no serious risk of death and you might as well have things that score for you, and once it starts getting hard enough that you are at risk of death, your scoring tends to slow way down (because you're prioritizing survival rather than scoring combos) and so living longer in that phase isn't worth very much, compared to scoring more during the "gravy train". But it's not as clear-cut as you suggest.
I believe when the dev was around, they spoke about how having the teleport slot may help you live a little longer while sacrificing the ability to another skill better aimed towards higher scores.
I can definitely respect your point of view on this but I still think teleport is a terrible skill for high score runs. It's a great ability for people learning the game or who want to focus on unlocks etc. I also think it will help a lot of people get higher scores as it will get them out of jams like you said... It also will make your average score higher as it will consistently get you out of jams and make your game longer... But once you're going for true high score runs I feel like you should just not use it cold turkey and force yourself to learn to play without it. If you have a solid build, then you'll find most of the time it just sits there unused until the very end of the game at which point it does not prolong the game that much longer. In the rare cases it could be useful before then (and it wasn't just a bad start) it's better to just chalk it up to a bad luck and start again rather than use up one skill slot that could be continually racking up points for you (I'm still a huge fan of slash)
I went and checked my high scores on Hard, and it seems like it could go either way: 1) Score: 75,983; turns 1205, no teleport, gold build 2) Score: 68,085; turns 1155, w/ teleport, shield build 3) Score: 65,822; turns 913, no teleport, shield build 4) Score: 59,060; turns 906, no teleport, gold build 5) Score: 55,259; turns 1017, w/ teleport, shield build I guess if anything, #5 shows more turns doesn't necessarily equate to higher score, although it helps. The gold and shield builds reflect the primary strategy, the four skills were always different each time. If anything, all except #4 (and all but two of my top 10 scores) have Dazzle as one of the skills. I definitely think that's the best skill in the game. Even with a gold build (where it could be counter-intuitive to use gold for swords) I think Dazzle can help you live longer than teleport.
Man that is a fun post to look at. It's cool to see your score break down with various builds. Here's what mine looks like on hard 1) Score: 79,985; turns 909, shield build with skill elixir 2) Score: 73,066; turns 952, shield build with skill elixir 3) Score: 64,983; turns 790, shield build with skill elixir The weird part is I know I got a higher score than that (and my high scores on normal are blank and I played a bunch of games on normal for fun). Further my later high score runs used slash as the 4th skill... The only thought I have is that those scores do match my game center scores... so maybe it's only recording scores when I'm online? I mostly play on the train where I don't connect to the internet... and I know most of my better scores I got were on the train... It just seems weird that the high scores on my actual app wouldn't match that. I get why game center wouldn't recognize the score (since I wasn't online) but I'd think the app would keep track... Ah well :- ) I don't care about leaderboards but it'd be nice to look at what build got me better scores. EDIT: the best score I had with teleport in the mix was in the low 50,000 if it matters for the discussion at hand. The turn count was right around 1000
Yes. But ultimately it becomes irrelevant because the enemy strength jumps so much that you can't have enough blunting. Still, it's probably the best ability through most of the game, because it can weaken enemies so much that you can basically ignore them and just set up your scoring combos. By the time it's ineffective, you aren't going to score much more anyway. If you were playing for max turns rather than max score, the calculation might be slightly different. I would say it can be a close call whether to take a point of blunting early, or to take something like +0.25 UPG which is going to get you more upgrades of all sorts. Eventually, though, you max out all of the +UPG etc. Also, of course, sometimes you just need a point or two somewhere else to survive early, especially at Harder difficulty.
For me (who always plays the shield combo when I go for high scores) I take blunting over anything but +0.25 UPG since as David pointed out it will net you more upgrades in the long run. If you were doing the treasure/coin combo I could see taking the +0.25 GP over it as well. Otherwise it is too good to pass up. It can be said though that at some point you effectively max out blunting too... since for every point of blutning you get it becomes less and less likely to show up again... so maybe you should always take the +GP/XP/UPG first in high score runs and just assume you'll get the blunting in the long run once you've maxed out the pumps... I don't know though... I still think I'm going to take blunting most of the time I see it and certainly above anything but those GP/XP/UPG ones.... He is back finally it appears :- ) I imagine he just isn't going to start posting until he has an update for us... or he might just be focusing on stabilizing the android version first. See the link below http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2097843&postcount=2152
Are you sure? I don't know how I would know whether this is true or not. You could track the rate at which each upgrade is offered over the length of the game, but you would have to gather a lot of data to be really sure. I would think that it's random unless I saw evidence to the contrary.
Thanks for the responses. I've been playing this essentially since it came out and through all of the updates. Actually going through now and leveling up every class. I think I have three of them level 10.. And I believe a level 9 Priest. Alternating between shield builds and gold builds. Favorite race, guys? EDIT: I second that, DaviddesJ. In fact, I third it, too.
I can definitely tell the difference... especially when I use the shield/upgrade build... by the end of the game I am getting a ton of upgrades (probably averaging 1 upgrade per turn when the combo is in full swing) and I get offered every upgrade numerous time but no blunting... That said, Fireflame also said this was the case and explains why in the post linked below http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=1674796&postcount=1423 And I fully agree with Fireflames logic although I do think he could tweak the balance of it a little still (i.e. I think he can safely make it occur a little more often). If I could get a lot more blunting, then I could survive a lot longer and get much higher scores. If I had the money I would too! I'll leave it at I'll happily pay whatever price fireflame wants for future updates and/or a sequel. Yeah I maxed out about half my classes before I stopped playing for a while. That said I started up a new game today thanks to you guys so maybe I'll get back into it again for a bit :- ) It's such a good game I always end up coming back to it eventually. As for race... I like the elf! The poison has really helped my end game and it's arch enemy is not so bad. for class... I don't use any of the class skills but I choose ranger since it's default perk is the one I like the most.
None for me, I basically stopped playing the game when he added the races and classes and a long boring grind to unlock them all. I just want a game where I can play with whatever different options I want, not one where I have to play a whole bunch of uninteresting games to unlock the stuff I want to play with. But the game was brilliant before that. And he could have just let me pay five bucks to unlock everything, and we'd both be better off. :-(
Okay so I was severely underestimating the gold build. I had tried it before but I was not using it even close to correctly. Here is how it should be done and IMO is even better than the shield build. Why? Well the shield build nets you approximately 4 upgrades every time it goes off with each upgrade being a straight forward boost to something This gold combo nets you even more item upgrades than that (sometimes a lot more) each time it goes off and each item upgrade can be worth more than an equivalent single upgrade done via shield (the item shop often gives you trade offs but the net gain can be 2 upgrades instead of 1). Since the game scores you based on how good you are by the end of the game you can use this seesaw method to get even more points out of each upgrade (i.e. take an item with -1 luck but +3 other stuff one time and next time you take -1 something but +3 something including luck). There are certain things you shouldnt minimize no matter what (blunting, durability, +GP/+XP/+UP, quick) but otherwise its fair game in my mind. They key is to scale things appropriately +5 HP is one upgrade +1 to a stat is kinda like 1.5 upgrades (since later in game the bonus chance increase is no longer applicable) and the others are all pretty much one upgrade So the base of the combo is boost gold, treasure chamber, and treasure. I apologize if this is old knowledge but I myself was not understanding how good it was and Ive read every post on this thread at some point so it bears repeating There are 2 good supplementary skills IMO (so far). Charge and Skill elixir. Heres what you do. With skill elixir . Eliminate as much as you can but leave potions behind (obviously prioritizing taking out specials while your skills are on cooldown). Activate treasure chamber and boost gold. Then use skill elixir collecting all the potions and replacing them with coins (thanks to treasure chamber). Activate treasure to collect all the coins (at 2x thanks to boost gold) and have them all replaced with coins (again thanks to treasure chamber). Now collect the entire screen of coins again for 2x gold since you have still yet to actually take your turn at this point even though youve collected a ton of coins. Now rinse and repeat as much as possible during the skill cooldowns. Pros: *gets you more XP *can set you up well for larger screens of coins with the combo Cons: *takes more setup which (with maxed out skills) is tough. You want to be firing this every time the skills cooldown and not having to wait. *Uses up all the potions which if you are low on life can be problematic but generally this is more of a pro actually since you often get way more potions than you need and they net you nothing for your score With charge Same thing really except use charge instead of skill elixir and focus on clearing out the middle of everything but coins (because charge will get the perimeter for you) and also killing any specials. Pros: *clears up the edges for you and ensures each combo has atleast half the screen with coins (yes charge clears out half the screen). *Easier to setup and do (especially helpful later in game). *Can be first picked every game as a skill if you go with warrior class * Charge will refill your life and XP for each shield/potion it clears from the perimeter for you. Cons: *doesnt net you XP for potions (it will still clear screen of potions as everything eventually hits the bottom where charge will get it) I think charge is the way to go myself but both are good. Now add sauren as your race and you can get a bunch of scrolls of this which will net you more points! And if one of those scrolls is treasure well you just collected another whole screen of coins with the 2x bonus and still havent taken your turn (netting more shop visits and more chances of scrolls). Ill miss having the elf racial ability for late game but this really adds to your score! And man is this way better than the shield build which I already thought was nuts . I have only been testing this so far but I really think this will be better than the shield build. I havent been able to do a serious high score run yet as I need to finish maxing out the warrior class (to get charge) and also unlock the sauren race . But this just seems a lot more powerful. And I thought the shield build was bonkers and needed to be tweaked so other strategies could thrive. This one is even more ridiculous. Also go figure 2 of the 3 classes I havent maxed out already are the ones I need for this combo :- )
Nice detailed post. Definitely interesting. I've been pounded through this with a slightly varied build (similar mechanic for both the shield and gold method I use). Now I'm just waiting for someone to come argue the shield build. Back to studying physio.
The "shield build" (Dazzle/Scavenge/Boost Armor) gets you about 5 upgrades every time you use it (typically I'm clearing about 30 shields, doubled). And you can use it every five turns, because all three skills have cooldown 15. If you're depending on Treasure Chamber, sure, the full Boost Gold/Treasure Chamber/Treasure combo probably has a greater total payoff each time you trigger it (you can't reliably get rid of all of your swords and shields, but you're clearing the screen twice rather than once), but you can only do it every fifteen turns, i.e., one-third as often. And the three skills all recharge at different rates, so if you want to use Treasure every 8 turns, then you are using Treasure Chamber every 16 turns, and you have to use Boost Gold only every 8 turns in order to get it to line up with when you use Treasure. I think the coin strategy is probably paying off better before you have all of your skills at level 10, but once you get everything maxed out, the upgrade rate with shields is really hard to match.
I very much agree with that logic and is why I always did the shield build previously... and like I said I've yet to attempt some serious high score runs with the gold build... but I still think the gold build is going to pan out better based on my silly tests with it (while trying to unlock the relevant stuff) since even if the number of upgrades is equal between the two... the item shop upgrades are better. We'll see if I'm right though and I'll post my results. It will likely be numerous weeks though as I'm very lazy about doing games simply to unlock stuff and high score runs take hours to complete. That said, I think Sauren is what really pushes it over the top as you can get a bunch of scrolls on top of the upgrades. I wish there was a similar boost for the shield build :- )
Since I haven't unlocked all the races and classes (and probably never will ) I can only compare the builds in the base game. The fact that some people have the patience to unlock everything, and others don't, also makes it hard for us to compare our results with each other. I would love to be able to experiment with some of the questions you mention, but it just isn't worth tens of hours of my life to unlock everything. I do think a lot depends on how lucky you get. If you get all of the key skills early, then leveling them up to level 10 and setting up the combo at max rate asap, makes a huge difference, compared to if you have to wait another 40 levels just to get the last skill you want.
I totally agree with the last statement. Hugely important. If you go back to my high scores, the highest one was the gold build using Charge exactly as Elfin described. The Sauren/Scroll point is an interesting one. I liked using Warewolf for the cripple ability, but others might be better in the long run. You also need to have the -1 recharge for the 4th skill, and you can sometimes get creative with what you use and wait for while getting to the treasure chamber recharge. David, instead of waiting for DR2, maybe now (since it's been a while) is the time to work on unlocking everything, and it might feel like a fresh experience to you because of all the different classes and everything.
