Universal Duet Game (by Kumobius)

Discussion in 'iPhone and iPad Games' started by copaeci, Oct 10, 2013.

  1. ngajoe

    ngajoe Well-Known Member

    May 26, 2012
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    Man this game is good. And hard. Acceptance VI about caused a brainsplosion. 300-some tries later, I got it.
    I think this has to be one of the best in the "twitch game" sub-genre. Very smooth.
     
  2. sapphire_neo

    sapphire_neo Well-Known Member

    Jan 20, 2011
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    I beat Acceptance and then stopped playing. Acceptance VI is where the game crosses the thin line that separates challenge and masochism, and a number of other people have pointed it out as a difficulty spike. For me personally the problem with that level, and invisible levels in general is that Duet is a game about finding rhythm and improving upon it iteration by iteration to reach the end of a level. When obstacles are visible you can refine your rhythm within a run by seeing how many pixels of clearance you had on the last obstacle. If invisible obstacles appear occasionally you can surpass them and then get back into rhythm when you see a visible obstacle, but with something like Acceptance VI where the whole level is invisible obstacles you are committed to a single rhythm which you cannot refine during the run because the information required to do so is withheld by the game. Thus, that kind of level requires a different type of memorization as well as no room for slippage in rhythm.

    Again, there is an audience for which that kind of level and game are perfectly suited, but I am not interested in sinking hours into single levels that last only 30-40 seconds. And that is why I have no suggestions on how to change the levels. The game as it exists is perfectly fine for the targeted audience.
     
  3. Bronxsta

    Bronxsta Well-Known Member

    Ah, I see. Haven't reached those levels yet, so I might be sharing the frustration too when I get there.
     
  4. Echoseven

    Echoseven Moderator
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    Jul 19, 2011
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    Most likely. The final two levels are completely invisible and the obstacles are only visible for a much shorter length of time than previously.

    Got perfect on the second-to-last level, yet to finish the finale. :(
     
  5. Mr Kumobius

    Mr Kumobius Well-Known Member
    Patreon Indie

    Hey everyone, one of the devs here.

    sapphire_neo, I completely understand what you're saying. We had a few internal debates at Kumobius about Acceptance and especially Transcendence. Specifically about the invisibility.

    I understand you aren't asking for us to change anything about the game. However, I'm going to discuss the invisibility issue a little bit and an idea we've had on how to mitigate the frustration you've described because we want the game to be the best it can be.

    You're right that the invisibility eventually asks the player to keep the rhythm entirely in their head with no chance to recalibrate. We have come up with an idea on how this difficulty could be eased though, and I'd love to hear feedback on the idea before we add it to the game.

    Currently in the final stages of the game the waves become invisible as they pass the vertical half way point on the screen. This is very brutal.

    The idea is: what if your blood splatters faded slower/less compared to the invisibility transition of the blocks? For example, a block might become completely invisible at half way down the screen, but if there are splatter marks on that block those splatters will still be visible for another 25% of the way down the screen. Or potentially, the splatter mark could not fade at all.

    This would mean that these waves stay extremely difficult as they are, but the more times you fail and try again the greater the chance you'll succeed and pass the wave.

    I'm genuinely interested in hearing whether people think this is a good addition or not. I don't think it'll completely "ruin" the brutality of the final stages, as a good player could still attempt to win on their first tries.

    We really try to make our games fun but when you're so deep in the development of something you can't see the forest from the trees -- especially when it comes to game difficulty.
     
  6. ROGER-NL

    ROGER-NL Well-Known Member

    May 21, 2012
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    WOW, just beat Acceptance VI, I am blasting with joy over here, good that nobody sees me now, Ha Ha. It took me about 250 or 300 tries but I did it, cool game. I personally would not change anything on your game, but the paint splatter on invincible blocks would be a nice touch, but it's up to you guys.
     
  7. Bronxsta

    Bronxsta Well-Known Member

    I think the paint splatters should definitely remain visible. I mean, that's been the main mechanic that teaches the player throughout the game. To remove that, along with the ability to see blocks, does seem unfair. I had been under the impression that the paint splatters remained, but now that I know this, that seems extremely unfair, even in the context of a tough game like this

    So yeah, please let paint splatters remain visible.
     
  8. mikeg123

    mikeg123 Well-Known Member

    Sep 23, 2009
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    What I believe he is saying is that the paint splatters will remain visible as it is. But right now, the paints platter disappears when the invisible block disappears. So you can't see the block or splatter. However, in a future update, it could be that the block still disappears normally, but the splatter remains on the screen for an extra length of time. You can't see the block, but you'll see the paint splatter moving down. And that would help people with the really difficult parts.

    I think that would be a great idea to help folks out. Could maybe make it an option, and/or have different leaderboards?

    While I have found the invisible blocks to be tough, I haven't found them to be frustratingly so. In an earlier comment I called them pure evil. But I also think they are pure genius. :)

    I still think Acceptance VI is the hardest level of all (not counting Transcendence II).
     
  9. sapphire_neo

    sapphire_neo Well-Known Member

    Jan 20, 2011
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    I'm glad to hear that you're interested in making things more accessible to players with less skill/patience, and the solution sounds like it could work without making the game easier for score chasers. It would cheapen the Acceptance and Transcendence achievements though. I'm not going to say whether you actually need to do this or not, but it's very nice to hear that you do have keeping the game fun for players as a goal in mind.
     
  10. ngajoe

    ngajoe Well-Known Member

    May 26, 2012
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    I would be for having splatter remain visible or tween to transparent slower. Or tie the tween rate to the amount of player deaths. That would be a neat touch.

    That being said, I personally found the Acceptance stage a ferocious challenge, and appreciated it as is. But I wouldn't mind the paint trick.

    Thanks for your game and continued support.
     
  11. JCho133

    JCho133 Well-Known Member

    Jul 27, 2012
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    I was so close to beating Transcendance ii )':
     
  12. ROGER-NL

    ROGER-NL Well-Known Member

    May 21, 2012
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    Congrats with your SILVER AWARD from POCKET-GAMER.
     
  13. mikeg123

    mikeg123 Well-Known Member

    Sep 23, 2009
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    Yes, finally passed Transcendence II!! In the end it wasn't too bad, but maybe that's because I've played the game so much now. :) I noticed that the patterns for Transcendence I and II changed every time I started anew. So maybe I got an "easier" pattern to play.

    I don't fully understand the scoring myself, but it appears that your score decreases each finesse level you pass. I've completed all of the levels for a total finesse score of 705 which put me at 10th place on the leaderboard. No idea how to improve on that. I don't believe getting a perfect decreases it any further.

    Kumobius, congrats on a fantastic game! I haven't played a game this much in a long time -- and I should be doing my own development instead. :) Though I'm sad to see that the game hasn't gotten a whole lot of recognition and/or featuring by Apple.
     
  14. You lucky dude...
     
  15. Echoseven

    Echoseven Moderator
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    Finesse is the total amount of moves you've done to complete a level. Getting a perfect DOES decrease it.
     
  16. metalcasket

    metalcasket Moderator
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    This is a stupidly brilliant game, and I hate to admit that I might actually like it more than...Bean's Quest. I know, blasphemy! Actually took an exception to my "Only buy Android games for a while" rule...and now I need this thing on my phone too!
     
  17. mikeg123

    mikeg123 Well-Known Member

    Sep 23, 2009
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    OK, that is what I thought might be the case, but I swear I checked my score before getting a perfect, and I didn't see it change. I'll try it out again.
     
  18. Bronxsta

    Bronxsta Well-Known Member

    And a 4.5 from Gamezebo
     
  19. Echoseven

    Echoseven Moderator
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    It might have changed by as little as 1, which is harder to notice. I didn't realize straight away either.
     
  20. mikeg123

    mikeg123 Well-Known Member

    Sep 23, 2009
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    Yeah, that was probably the case. I just got 4 more perfects, and it decreased my score by 4 to 701. Thanks for pointing that out.
     

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