It's sporting. We lob hardballs of logic and reason, he bounces them off his head, into the bull pen, off the wall and into a puddle of snuff sputum. It is the debate equivalent of a Rube Goldberg machine where he's lying directly across the middle of it and we're trying to build contraptions clever enough to get through him.
To call someone a troll is to accuse them of deliberately inciting arguments using specious or wrong-headed reasoning. Florbastang's reasoning -- even by his own example -- is exceptionally flawed and unreasonable, typically the hallmark of a troll who doesn't necessarily believe what he is spouting, but immaturely spouts it anyway to create controversy so he can get a jolly from watching the resulting fireworks. Any reasonably intelligent, mature person in this case understands how the industry works and why the pricing for this game is pretty reasonable, and debating that using ignorant, absurd and grievously flawed talking points while flatly refusing to accept even the possibility that anyone else may have a point like he has been doing is suspiciously troll-like behaviour, hence the accusation.
If it makes you feel any better, he just called me that very thing (The "P" word) in a now-deleted post.
I do take your point, and wholly agree. I can't help feeling though that using 'Troll' has a vindictive quality about it too, but maybe that's just me...
The fact remains that you've spent so much time whining about Doom, that if you had been working at a job during that time, you would have enough money to buy Doom. It's a pity how your money matters so much, but your time certainly doesn't.
It is vindictive. It just so happens that, properly applied, it's also a perfectly valid accusation. That's the beauty of it. It's like being on a debate team and being allowed to poke holes in your opponent's arguments with a pointy stick. Also, just to further solidify the accusation, it's probably not hard to notice that any rebuttal that successfully takes away his current bone of contention is ignored while he finds another bone to gnaw on. If that ain't trollish behaviour...
Also want to point out that it's not entirely fair to discount the opinions of those who haven't played DR. This is, after all, simply a discussion of the game's price which leads one to the obvious conclusion that not all participating have paid that asking price just for 'post cred' (myself included). I do however feel the basic prereq's should be first of all knowing what a rail shooter is (I'm dating myself but the last RS I played was Star Wars Rebel Assault if anyone remembers that gem) and viewing some of the high quality gameplay videos out there which give a quite clear idea how DR plays, looks and sounds. Bottom line: this game looks fun for the 3 hours it lasts, will eventually settle in around the 3 dollar mark (4 if they really wanna push it) and in the meantime id will be more than happy to scrape that extra $6-7 of cream off the top. It's a business after all.
In a way though that's pretty consistent with his entire argument: He doesn't seem to place value on anyone's time. His earlier posts clearly spelled out that he didn't give a damn what a developer had to put in to the design of a game, it should be cheap regardless, and it's not his problem if development costs factor into an inflated price.
I guess in order to dish it out you have to be able to take it on the nose too, as he seems to be happy about. Fair play
Your point is taken, but actually this thread was started in the original game's thread...it got so off track regarding price that a separate thread was created. This started as less of a "is this really worth 10 bucks" thing and more of a "this game sucks, what a piece of garbage, 10 dollars are you kidding me" type thing, and that was by a select few who hadn't played the game. I think you can get an idea of whether you are willing to spend 10 dollars on the game by looking at the video, but you really can't get an accurate feel on playing the game until you play it.
I agree completely. I thought the description and the videos looked boring, but the game is actually pretty impressive. I'm having a lot of fun with it. If you haven't played Doom3, some of the details about what's happening will be lost, but it's still a great game.
deckerd, if you haven't played the game, all you can do is assess whether it looks like something you would spend 9.99 on -- regardless of how much high-quality footage you've seen. Categorical statements like "a rail shooter is worth X amount" are meaningless in a market environment. People will pay the asking price if it looks to them that it's worth it. Considering that it's currently #11 in the App Store, there are many people who feel that it is. More to the point, those of us who have actually shelled the cash and played the game feel (for the most part) that it was worth 9.99. You can argue (like florbastang) that we're deluded, or Id fanboys, etc, but that's just sad and desperate. Or you can accept that your impression of the game is not shared by many, many people and move on.
That's what the other thread is for in the main forum, those who have played the game. This thread is about nothing but pricing discussion and DR's price in particular; I realize it's a fine line but that's why I'm posting here instead of there. True DR doesn't much appeal to me though I admit (as I've done on several occasions) that it looks fun and well-produced. However the 9.99 price is just plain steep and I'm admittedly bitter about the current state of id software's lack of creativity in the last 10 years. Wolf3D port should have just been free too as a show of good faith, then maybe try and hit us with DR and a $10 price tag. I just feel very nickel and dimed by id's strategy so far of rehashing/reusing yet charging premium price.
deckerd, what I'm saying is that "knowing what a rail shooter is" gives you no authority in a discussion about the price-point of a game that you haven't played. There is no absolute rule that says that that an on-rails game is worth more or less than a FPS: it depends on the specific games. You are welcome, of course, to form an opinion as to whether the game seems worthwhile to you, and whether you want to give money to a developer that you feel is nickel and diming you. That opinion, however, is less than helpful to anyone who doesn't share your predilections. As any business person knows, pricing is not something that can be discussed in the abstract.
I have to disagree with you there. I know some have mentioned this, but, honestly now, within the past 10 years id has brought out DOOM RPG for mobiles, Orcs & Elves for mobiles and Nintendo DS, and DOOM 3, the last one of which, IMHO, was a pretty stellar game all around. Um...no. People were willing to pay for Wolf3D. And so...as a business in a capitalist economy (we, after all, do not live in some imaginary "utopia" where goods and services are "free", and, yes, the quotation marks are used for a reason), why not charge people? Then wait for a price drop, as is your right.
See, there's that sense of entitlement again. Wolf3D is not free on PC, PS3, or Xbox 360. Why on earth should it be free on the iPhone?
Gonna have to differ with you on that one as you're basically saying those who haven't played the game have less say in the matter and can only speak in abstractions. Knowledge in any way you get it allows you to make better decisions and for those of us who just won't be buying this game at $10 period, knowing what it is and watching actual gameplay footage allows for that much more informed participation in the reasons why being discussed here. I further offer to you that specifically because this is a rail shooter the videos taken by TA and others are more representative than normal of the actual experience one would have playing as clearly neither the path nor monster spawns change from game to game. Again I say this game looks like fun but for maybe $3 not $10. When id finally comes out with something new, I'll be first in line to buy it at top dollar. I do plan to buy Doom Classic for primarily nostalgic reasons (as with Wolf) but spidey-sense tells me that TOO will be 9.99 and c'mon already, I have Doom in 1,000 different flavors for free on the PC at this point, where do you draw the line? As you said though, in the end it's all just opinions but that's what makes TA a great place to vent...er discuss!
