K well off top my head cause i'm at work, but: Sway, Rogue Touch, CJS, Underworlds, Gemmed! (yes a PUZZLE game I've played for more than an hour in 1 sitting), Bounce On, Fastlane, Let's Golf, Rolando, Hero of Sparta, Wild West Pinball (yes I play that for hours ). I'm sure some of those games aren't your cup of tea, and tastes vary, but just saying I wouldn't say there's NO games that you wouldn't play for an hour.... more later gotta go home now!
Sway is great. Can't play for an hour straight though. I've never heard of Rogue Touch. CJS is GTA like, which I can't stand GTA. Pointless IMO. ... I do love Gemmed, but I prefer straight Bejeweled. Still not worth an hour straight. Bounce On is pretty great, and is getting better, and may be the only one I'll admit to. Fastlane is a racer, and while the best one on iPhone, not very good in general. I don't like racers much anyway. Never played Let's Golf, Rolando is the 2nd one I'll admit to, but it doesn't have the long term play that it needs. Addictive. Fun. Great controls. But no real long term play. HoS is an epic fail IMO. I cannot stand that game for anything. WAYYYY too repetitive. And Wild West Pinball, well, I don't have it, and honestly I prefer booting up WinXP and playing the completely addictive version bundled with it.
I definitely see your point of view. I have a PSP & DS, and to be honest I played them almost exclusively at home. The reason is cause it was always too much of a hassle to try and game on the go with either of them. The PSP takes too long to boot up games, and I never loved hauling around the UMD's with me either. Plus the system itself isn't my ideal vision of portable. The DS is much better, smaller game carts, quicker loading and overall smaller hardware (although still not ideal). But I still found it near impossible to just grab if I'm going out somewhere with the lady, or take it to work for breaks/lunches/when I should be working. So, I just ended up playing at home most the time. And both of those systems cater to just that. I'm not dying to play some epic RPG in quick 5 minute bursts over the course of weeks. PSP games are the worst about it, they are basically just a shade away from full blown console games. It's like a mini PS2!! It's incredible, I was awe struck by them when they came out, but it isn't practical in my opinion. And don't get me wrong, I love both those systems. However, with the app store, there's so many options that can cater to any kind of gamer I need to be. It's pretty close to perfect. Theres games that I can play for a few minutes at a time, iPod is already snug in my pocket, takes less that 10 seconds to fire something up, and I can game in between real life stuff. Or.... I can come home, plop on the couch and fire up a more complex game and really stuff some time into it. It's like having the best of both worlds. Whoa, sorry to get sorta off topic, just having memories of a similar rant I had in this thread. Anyway, my point being is that I disagree that there aren't quality, content rich, "real" games on the app store, I think there clearly are if you take some time to look. And I think the future is only getting brighter for the iDevices. Not even a year into the app store and already so many games, it's already replaced my PSP/DS.
Your mindset is indicative of those gamers raised on the teet of the "32/64-bit" gen, however, so, really, whittling it down to PSone or N64 doesn't matter in the long run. It's a generational mindset, and a wrong headed one. Puzzle Quest. . How big of you to finally admit even this after getting answered and owned to Valhalla and back by a handful of different posters. You want me to give you the link to Metacritic scores for games like Tetris, Puzzle Quest, Bejeweled, etc.? You can state "in my opinion, they aren't good games", but your opinion doesn't matter to the vast amount of people who hold different opinions. Different strokes for different folks, and there are a TON of folks who like, buy, and play puzzle games quite often. Fine. Raised on the teet of wrongheaded "definitions" of what is and what is not gaming. I find it even more ironic, btw, that you dare call games that are games "not games" when a lot of the genres you dislike (puzzle for instance) have had quite a push from Nintendo historically. Puzzle games are "not real games"? Tell that to Nintendo, who, before Pokemon saved their asses a second time, had their asses saved by a little game called Tetris (FYI, the original Game Boy sold on the name and gameplay of Tetris alone). Some people have already named some, but I'll go even further. The idea of worthiness aside, the better question is this: Why in friggin' hell would you expect hour long chunks of gameplay on a mobile platform? Super Mario World was a home console game (SNES), so the expectation was there to have hours and hours of gaming periods. Hence this is a bad example. Home consoles carry with them expectations of hours and hours of gameplay, and this is because sitting on your couch, with the system always plugged in via wall outlet, there is not "battery time" element nor a "we're here" element (as most portable gaming is done on the go). As for your portable game market example, yes, Pokemon Yellow could be played for hours and hours at a time...if one had extra batteries or hooked the system up to an ac adapter, which, btw, most portable game market consumers don't do. As such most gaming periods for Pokemon was until the battery ran out, and that was an hour or two at most on the GBP and GBC (and even the original GBA). Even now with the lith ion batteries, portable gaming is usually in half hour to hour chunks (battery life, and "this is my stop" or "we're here" elements of the market). That's why the gameplay was extended in Pokemon, and the fact that it pushed two player battles and a collection system to assist in said battles is what gave it longevity, btw. If you didn't go after all of the Pokemon it would, at most, take a normal gamer about 4 - 5 hours to complete the entire game (speed runs for Red/Blue/Yellow have been timed at under 2 hours without exploiting any bugs, less if you do). But those 4 - 5 hours were broken down into 1/2 hour to hour long periods over a period of days, and the collection aspect and two player battle aspect added to the replay value and longevity. The mobile market, however, focuses, due to device constraints (battery life) and consumer expectation (which is on "minute" gaming, btw) on short burst games. That does not mean longer games are unavailable. The Quest, Puzzle Quest, Galaxy on Fire, and quite a few others all have gameplay that people enjoy for hours at a time (when hooked up to external power source). You personally don't agree, but your opinion doesn't cast aside the opinions of those that do play those games for hours.
Jebus H... games are games are real games, kiddo. Every single game genre you lambast has been part of the industry since it's infancy in most cases? Again, puzzle games aren't "real" games in your view? Well, what the hell are "real" games? Certainly any game is a real game by definition, as the only antithesis would be "imaginary" games (and if you've played video games that exist only in your imagination, please, share that fine bud with the rest of us ). And if puzzle games aren't "real" games, what does your Nintendo lovin' butt think of Nintendo releasing and pushing puzzle games for decades now. "Real" devs? You mean like EA, Sega, THQ, Gameloft, Konami, Namco, Capcom, etc.? *checks the app store They're all there, buddy, and they've all released games, yes, "real" games (which you've yet to actually define). You...you have seen the download numbers for games in the app store, right? Seems a lot of folk want to play these games. People have already answered this, but now I'll further what I've stated earlier: Why would you expect hour long gaming on a mobile platform? You brought up Pokemon (a portable game) and Super Mario World (originally a home console game). You...you do know that there is a significant difference between mobile platforms like iTouch/Phone and portable game systems like GBA, DS and PSP and both platforms have a variety of differences when compared to home consoles like SNES, N64, GC and Wii, right? Again, out loud: THIS IS A MOBILE PLATFORM. The mobile market and the portable game system market are NOT THE SAME. There are differences in expectations on the part of consumers. If you wish to have hour long gaming, you most likely need look elsewhere, just as if you're expecting the latest HD graphics and games you want to play through 2-3 hours straight on a portable game system you need look elsewhere (home console market in this case). Then explain all of the ports across them all. Seriously...you have NOT thought your "points" through. At all. Again, that's your problem: This is not a gaming system. It's a mobile platform that is viable for games. There's a difference, and the difference is similar to how the PC market for games does not make the PC platform a "gaming system" like the home consoles. Different markets, different expectations on the parts of consumers. We've already established that puzzle and word games are real games in ever sense of the word. Whether you personally disagree matters very little, as you are not the sole definer of what is and what is not a game (and thank goodness for that, as I'd hate to see gaming defined by toddlers of the world).
Fine. But I didn't really like the Nintendo 64 at all. SNES is my all time favorite console. Period. iPod gaming isn't my thing, and that is my opinion. I don't mind being tethered to a wall to play a game that is worth my time to do so, which few, if no iPhone games are worth. And, while you could just jet through Pokemon, that isn't the point. The point is to do EVERYTHING. It takes years to make a DS game, and weeks to make an iPhone game. That is the REAL gap between them. I expect to play a long time on a mobile platform because that is the whole idea. I expect more, and we get more. Console gaming for the past decade has been a fail. I'm a retro freak, so, perhaps to someone who has embraced modern gaming, it seems like I was "raised on the teet of the "32/64-bit" gen", but I wasn't. I never stated that puzzle games weren't games. I was saying that Bejeweled doesn't constitute calling a device a "gaming" platform. I love puzzle games, including Bejeweled, but they aren't full, engaging games, like Galaga, Super Mario, Pokemon, and others.
To YOU. To others, games like Galaxy on Fire, The Quest, Puzzle Quest, etc. are worth it. Even then, however, I question the very idea of gaming on a mobile device in that matter, and a portable device in that matter as well. They are both meant for "gaming on the go" and do NOT typically have experiences that prove as lengthy as good home console or PC games. That said, I use my PSP as a hybrid of sorts, but that's mainly because Sony wrongheadedly chose to try to make a portable play games more suited for the home console market. True...but my point was that if one played straight through, you'd be looking at a 4 hour game. The "collect 'em all" aspect was not necessary to the game, but did extend longevity by quite a bit. And that worked hand in hand with the two player battle aspect which meant you had to train your Pokemon to "be the best". All of that extended what was, at root, a very short game. Put it to you this way: the main quest in Pokemon was not as long as the main quest in Final Fantasy VII. But it would be silly to compare the two, as one is a game in the portable market, in which the games are typically shorter than home console games like FFVII. I remember playing the hell out of Pokemon back during my senior year in high school, btw. The hours I put into that game was part of what almost made me not graduate on time (senioritis really was contagious - I slacked off a lot senior year). I literally blew through the main quest in a few hours (spread over a couple of days), but put in several times more hours filling up the Pokedex and training all of those Pokemon to the highest level (and even experimenting with different movesets for each, so as to have a better set than my best friend). Depends. It doesn't take years to make a DS game on average. About a year on the high end, a few months or even couple of months on the low end. And it might take weeks to make a quick, run for the money iTouch/Phone game, but a lot of devs take much longer than that if they put their all into the game. Zen Bound, whatever you think of it, took much longer than a few weeks to develop. So did games like Rolando, Galaxy on Fire, Bounce On, etc. The early litmus was Super Monkey Ball, and I think you're alluded to that, but you have to remember two things: 1. The "it only took weeks" part of Monkey Ball was getting a quick demo up and running. The game itself took the better part of a couple of months of rushed development to get it out to the App Store as early as possible. 2. Although Sega didn't develop the game themselves, they do have probably the most experience among all iTouch/Phone developers in terms of developing games for PowerVR GPUs. So they have a leg up on other developers and publishers (sad that they don't use it often, though...there really should be more Sega content on this platform). Um...no...it isn't. Again, don't confuse the portable game market with the mobile game market. Yes, you "game on the go" with both...but there are very distinct differences, and those differences run the gamut from device differences, usage differences (portable game systems are focused on game software, mobile market devices are not focused on any one thing), and, yes, different consumer tastes/demands/needs. Playing a long time in one sitting isn't the majority demand for games on mobile platforms. It's really about "minute gaming". A few minutes during breaks. That's it. That's the main focus of games serving the mobile market. There are "longer" experiences, but those are the ones that are niche. If you truly are a retro freak, you'll remember walking into arcades and playing very short burst games like Pac-Man, Space Invaders, Missile Command, etc. These were not "long" experiences. And, btw, that sort of "quarter crunching" quick play/quick burn experience is part of what defined games in the arcade market. That's what made home console gaming different over time, and PC market games different from home consoles and arcade games. Differences in interface, target playing times, consumer age group/target base, etc. What I'm getting at is that you seem to be holding the mobile (and even the portable market to some degree) to the standards of other markets, and that's not the way to judge these things. We have to judge by the standards of the target platform and market, not by those on other platforms in other markets. It seems to me that the issue isn't the quality of the games, but rather the focus of the platform and market that doesn't appeal to you. In which case I would stick to the portable market or home console market. Yeah...yeah ya did. Well, there's a difference between gaming platform and platform viable for games (or rather game system and platform viable for games). Home video game consoles and portable video game systems are game platforms/systems. They are focused on running one type of software above all else (games). The mobile and, yes, PC market, however, are not primarily focused on game software. They are, however, viable platforms for game development and playing. I would say that any device that you play a game with is a viable platform for games if commercially viable...but to be a "game system" it would have to focus primarily on games. Mobiles and PCs don't...but they have some killer games nonetheless. You just have to tune into the platform and why it is "different". Yes, they are "full, engaging games". Again, game "length" does not denote a "real" game, as the plethora of very short games since the infancy of the industry attest. And there are puzzle games that are quite lengthy (Samurai Puzzle Battle, Puzzle Quest, Aurora Feint, etc.). Galaga a "full, engaging game"? Talk to those gamers younger than yourself, and they might disagree. It's generational, and it's silly. Galaga is a full game as is Bejeweled. They are in different genres, having with them different conventions, and were developed for different markets with different expectations, but both are, indeed, "full games".
I have different views than you and BOARDUM, and I respect that. I spent hours playing Pac-Man, Space Invaders. There was a deep aspect. Not, progress through, but the constant will to beat a high score. I would have had your opinion a few months ago, but now, the novelty of iGaming is wearing off, and I'm realizing how pitiful it really is. Plus, it's no coincidence with the coming of the DSi. Agree to disagree. I hate Puzzle Quest, btw.
Holy scrolling, you guys are quote-tastic. Well actually, Spiffy you're just wordy. Which I love BTW! I totally respect your POV as well, I think the thing that struck a chord with me was your matter of fact write-off that the app store didn't have "real" games. I think if you mix in a "IMHO" when you say something like that, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Just boils down to different strokes for different folks I guess Also, I hate to hear that the novelty of iGaming is wearing off, the app store isn't even a year old yet and I think the REALLY great stuff is just on the horizon. Yes Spiffy, I completely agree with this point and have seen you say similar things to countless others on other threads. And, I think it's true. But... This frickin' iPod has BECOME my mobile gaming system, even though it's not intended to be as such. I actually had to delete a couple gigs of music to make some more room for games. That blew my socks off, as I've had a iPod since they first came out and I'm a rampant music listener. Now, the games are taking priority with me, which is cool and all, just c'mon Apple increase the dang memory on these things. I like having a bigger portion of my music collection than I can squeeze into 32 gigs. Also, Brewmaster mentions the DSi, and the fact that that thing has been available for almost a month and I haven't got one yet, well that just cements the fact that I no longer need other mobile game systems. Normally, that sucker would've been on pre-order since day 1. Who knows, I'll probably see one up close and cave in anyway, but as of right now it's just not important to me. Also, be nice Spiffy. I'm referring to my touch as a gaming system loosely, I understand it's a "mobile platform". But, IMHO (see what I did there?) it is my current favorite gaming system (sorry X360) to me. P.S. I laughed pretty hard at that one, thanks. EDIT: Just read this article over at IGN[10 Reasons Nintendo Should Fear iPhone]. IGN has sort of fallen out of favor with me over the last couple years, and there's some inaccuracies in the article, but overall a pretty good read. And some pretty great Nintendo fanboy rants in the comments
Well, iPod doesn't cut it with me. The games aren't that good, anything beyond casual is a fail on this platform. The DS is amazing, and you should definately pick one up. [Insert appropriate IMOs]
Ironically I'm fairly quiet irl. I also repeat myself a lot, I know. It's a habit I've had since childhood. Anyway, I was just reading the IGN thing, but...so...many...things...wrong in that article. The focus on iPhone and the lack of mention (aside from one fleeting comment) of the iPod touch. Seems the media too has to learn that this platform is not iPhone alone: it's iTouch/Phone. And, from the research others have had, there's a higher percentage among the iTouch userbase downloading games than among the iPhone userbase. To ignore iTouch is foolish. And Apple ain't releasing a massive system update anytime soon. 2 -3 years from now, sure...but not so soon. They'll milk the current hardware for all it's worth. Finally, Nintendo has relatively little to worry about, as DS and iTouch/Phone are in a different market as stated. Portable game market vs. mobile market. That said, even if Apple were to "get in the game" with a straight focused game system, whether portable or home (or both, and that is the avenue they should take IMHO), Nintendo still wouldn't have much to worry about. Nintendo will ALWAYS have their particular and highly profitable niche of the games industry as "children of all ages" are always being born, and Nintendo STILL has some of the best known IPs in the business and a rabid fanbase to which they cater, and best dev teams as well . That latter part they've gotten away from somewhat (I'm tired of Nintendo outsourcing things to 3rd parties...EAD, Retro, Intelligent Systems, and the rest of the Nintendo 1st party teams are virtually MIA at this point), but they'll always have that over nearly every other company. And that fanatic base in the market for Mario, LoZ, and Metroid games will be there as well. Are there "Apple fanatics"? Sure. But not all Apple fanatics would buy games regardless of whether said games are on Apple hardware. In contrast, ALL Nintendo fanatics buy games, in particular Nintendo games.
i consider it a media device for songs, able to game and do some other stuff first but it's status as an IPOD is primary in my mind... But my parents see it as a substitute gaming console, so go figure
Haha, my parents too! I chose the first one, because when I first bought it, it was so I can listen to music on it.
Spiffy, I agree with all those points about the IGN article. Interesting to read, I guess, but not much else. You made me feel like I was bagging on you before, which I wasn't! Just sayin' so nothing gets lost in the translation to the internets! So the reason I came back here, and Brewmaster listen up buddy cause this is for you, I'm gonna eat a few of my words (not a full meal, just a snack or two). So this thread got me to thinking, and I took this weekend as an opportunity to bust out the PSP and DS. And damn, good times. There really isn't anything that can compare to playing games on a dedicated GAMES machine. Oh buttons, how I missed thee! Nothing can replace how sublime the Castlevanias for DS are, or just the simple fact of having Mario games. I had beaten everything there is to do on Mario Kart, but fired it up again just to play and it's just so so fun. Nintendo fun, something NO other company out there can duplicate. There def is a real sense of polish on these games that you rarely see on iDevice games. DS, I have forsaken you, forgive me. As for you PSP, yes you are a whizbang device you are, but I still think I could do without you. Oh sure, I'd miss you God of War and Dracula X Chronicles. And it's mighty hard to fathom not jumping into Street Fighter Alpha 3 whenever I want. But in the end, as was mentioned earlier, the PSP tries too hard to be a full blown console in the palm of your hands. That is extremely cool, but not really what I want. I think, if someday, PSP comes out with much better hardware I might grab one again. It's rumored there will be a smaller, UMD drive-less model someday, that sounds pretty cool. But then again maybe I'll just wait for a PSP2 or something. Until then, "PSP for sale!" Also, want to point out that I don't think this lessens how into iDevice gaming I am. I still maintain that there's some damn fine games on the app store which come close to rivaling DS/PSP, but ultimately it still will always be a "device" that plays games. Apple might come out someday and say "ok we've sold our 200 billionth iPhone, and each one of those people have downloaded at least one game, so we're the ultimate portable gaming console!" or something like that. But, you really can't compare. Probably in the next couple years, Nintendo and Sony will come out with new models that blow the iPhone away, and iPhone gaming will just replace the cell phone gaming position. I think the reason I've been so into the app store is because it's so exciting right now. The DS has really been flooded with so much shovelware, and the PSP barely ever gets games at all. So many games come out on the app store each day, with so many unique ideas. It really reminds me of when I got my Dreamcast, seemed like gaming at that time was "make 3D world like Mario 64, insert characters, cut, copy, repeat." Dreamcast had games that were actually FUN to play, it was like "the gamers system" while everything else was more or less just trying to tech your pants off. (Still got a Dreamcast BTW, and many amazing games. Just never the time to bust it out I guess ) Hard to explain, I just feel like my iPod reintroduced me to having fun playing games, much like my Dreamcast, instead of worrying about what the next greatest thing to come out will be. I'm sure I'll still game most on my iPod, but this weekend I realize I need more that just that. I probably shouldn't be rewarding myself for turning my back on my beloved little game machines, but I think this week I'll pick up a DSi and Chinatown Wars. Maybe another game or two, haven't really checked any DS releases in like 7 months! Anybody interested in my navy blue DS lite? Sorry to ramble on so much, just wanted to share my epiphany with you folks
Yes. I think I finally taught BOARDUM something about games. I do indeed spend most of my time gaming on my iPod. But that's mostly because I can play NES, SNES, GB, and GBA games too. that makes me spend much more time on it, since I have the best of both. Powerful portablility and engaging games. But playing games on DSi is much more rewarding and fulfilling.
attention all toucharcade members and staff: i realize that each and every member of toucharcade has been heartbroken since my apparent ban back in februray. That was over three months ago, i have spent those months in a red chinese prison. I realize that many of you have been writing letters to the honerable webmaster arn asking why i have stopped posting on this site, as he has told you, it was classified information, but i am here to relieve some old wounds. I am back, and here to stay. Spred the word throughoutthe village, smokin okin has returned, and now better than ever. He has come back with better grammer, and more enjoyable insights. No more cursing, no more insults, no more back stabbing, only pure peace, love, and iphone games. Feel free to private message me if you have any questions or comments about my innagural speech, or if you just want to say hello. Some of my good old friends such as spiffyone and wastedyuthe have been yearning for me to come back from the dead, and i have finally returned after my absenty hiadus. Once again, many thanks to arn for unblocking, and i will be sure to make sure that the new and improved toucharcade will have its best forums ever. Thanks again, smokin del magnificento con okin
It's hard to say which way I lean towards, really. If you ask me how much time I spend with the iPod, I'd have to say that it spends most of its time playing music and podcasts. However, the Appstore was a huge factor in me wanting an iTouch, and it is also the reason why I went for the 32 Gb version - to store as much music and as many apps on it as I could. I do play on it quite a bit and make use of its other media features such as the browser.
