No, I drop $80 on iOS apps a month, between my iPad and iPhone, and I have no problem paying for an iPad version if it has additional content as well as upgraded graphics. i'm not sure what your point is regarding console games.... if a developer wants to produce a $50 PS3 game, they are open to do so. PopCap just announced PvZ will be a DS title along with Mac, PC, and Xbox Live Arcade along with iPhone and iPad ("HD"). What's your point? The money's there if the game is worthy of the consumer dollar, apparently. Devs also know that a game like "Cut The Rope" would never make it as anything but a mini-game in a compliation or a downloadable (and maybe as a DS title). The iOS economy is full of opportunity, and also people who will take advantage of consumers. In my opinion, and having just had similar issues with "Beyond Ynth" and "Across Age", iOS releases should be: *iPhone version = $X ($0.99, $2.99, whatever) *ALL iPad versions with equivalent features should be Universal, cost 1.5X the iPhone version *iPad versions with additional content/features should be a separate product and marketed as such. Price is then as dev warrants relative to the work put in over a standard iPad/iPhone version. And the only way devs will understand why people aren't buying an iPad version of a game/app that was released 2 weeks earlier on the iPhone is if people post on here to say they disapprove of this sales model. Otherwise, it looks like the iPad is a less attractive market, which isn't true. I would gladly pay extra for a Universal app (within reason) over a iPhone-only app, but I dont feel it's right to then make the iPad version substantially more expensive with graphic quality being the only differentiation between the versions. I also hate it when music artists put out an album, then 6 months later a "Collector's Edition" with a DVD, and then 4 months after that a "USA Tour Edition" with an additional song and 3 live tracks. But they know the fans, especially the hardcore, will buy it again and again. I'm not interested in seeing the game industry treat iOS releases similarly. It feels like taking advantage of the fanbase with music, and it feels like it even more so with iOS game releases, because you're usually not getting a whole lot more for the money, and it's usually 3-4 times more money you're asked to shell out. I'm really frustrated that Across Age is going to be re-re-released in a "Retina Graphics" edition (Across Age "DX" or something), because I think that's taking this issue to the extreme. A $1 IAP upgrade for retina graphics is as far as I can allow myself to consider going. Otherwise, the standard ones were quite acceptable, thanks FDG. If they really wanted to make some money they'd wrap that "bonus" dungeon from the iPad version into the iPhone as well as an IAP, but it's not enough to entice me to pay $3 more over the iPhone version, and $7 more for the privledge of owning BOTH versions. By the way, if people stick to buying $50 PS3 games, that's a lot of $4-6 Universal apps that could be picked up instead. I bet Chillingo and a lot of the other "little guys" would rather see that money. It's theirs for the taking, if they do things the right way. Now I'm going to to back to Cut The Rope, iPhone edition, which scales up quite nicely on my iPad, by the way. <sorry, started this before the request to move the discussion, although I think discussions of price are very much on-topic regarding a game, but I understand there are advertisers to make comfortable as well>
Ok, as I said, no more price discussion in the thread. So made a new thread of your post. WTH are you even talking about here?
I agree, I hate EA due to there low amount of app updates, And when they do want to release an update they just release a separate Deluxe version without fixing bugs in the previous version. This happened with Sim City and I know this is kind of different but FIFA11 isn't really much better then FIFA10. EA are just in it for the money.
Who isn't? Even this site isn't doing it from the goodness of one's heart. There's dollars to be chased, and that means there's going to be bias to protect the bottom line. How this ties into the Universal app is that devs would make MORE money from people like myself (and others, it sounds like) because we'd spend more on a Universal app than only the cheaper, iPhone-only version. I don't have an issue with devs looking to make money, but they should consider Universal apps as being a way to up-sell, rather than going for the seperate (comparatively way) higher-priced product with the iPad version
What I ment is that I don't think they really care what there consumers buy, all they want is the cash at the end of the day. They could get away with selling a game called "MOH" and it have nothing but a white screen (Even though apple wouldn't allow it). They wouldn't care.
Lemme repeat my question again Anyways, I actually do know what you're talking about here. I just wanted to confirm thats what you meant. Lemme try and make you explain it as simply as I can.. - I'm a voluntary mod here. I dont get paid from TA. Not even a single penny. Even if they ever want to pay me, I'll refuse it. So I have no financial benefit here. - That post of mine asking you guys to stop bitching was mine only Not influenced by any of the admins (who are financial beneficiaries of this site). All of them are US based so they prolly werent even awake at that time. - So far no one (site admins) has ever asked me to ignore/favor a specific dev. - So all your claims of bias on TA forums are baseless and absolutely ridiculous. What I posted there was what I thought is right IMO uninfluenced by anything financial. Its a game thread. I just tried to remove the off topic convo from it. Not even stopped anyone to discuss it. Just asked you guys to create a new thread and discuss there instead. Please think before posting crap like that. - And just as a fun fact, I actually infracted someone (not gonna name him/it/them) who is an active sponsor of the site for quite some time now. Even threatened them of a ban if they are found breaking the rule again. They replied that they'll talk to arn and resolve the matter soon. Months later, I never got to hear anything from arn or that 'someone' again. Had they wanted, they could simply asked me to ignore that 'someone' to protect their sponsors. If that doesnt prove to you that this site is 100% unbiased, I dont even know what to think of you. The only bias I have seen on this site is towards devs who make good iOS games. And thats the bias I dont mind them having.
What i most concerned about is why iPad games should cost more that iPhone versions in the first place? Most of them got retina support, which is very close to iPad resolution, so it's clear than no additional work going on here. I don't mind buying the game 2nd time on different device if it's at least the same price (and i don't care if it's not 0.99, but 1.99 or 2.99 each as long as it's the same price), which is not the case here.
What I'm talking about is that having forum posters critiquing every dev's pricing for iPad releases doesn't make for a very dev-friendly environment (at least for the ones being critiqued). Having non-dev friendly boards doesn't inspire devs to spend advertising dollars at those forums. You posted this remark in the "CtS" thread about people criticizing the pricing scheme of these game releases while commenting that a game at 0.99 is beyond reproach (and that people are ridiculous are doing so). (It seems everyone complaining sounds to you like the all-caps rant that I can't see elsewhere in the thread, so I can only assume you wrote it yourself.) For this game, the pricing is more reasonable, but would you make the same statement about Across Age, where they have priced the "HD" at $7, and the regular iPhone version is $4? Granted, neither are truely bank-breakers (is anything on the App store?) but how much more consumer-friendly would it be to say, upon release, "iPad/Universal version coming soon" and if, the dev doesn't do that, make the Universal the "regular" and then re-release the iPhone version as an "SD" version? Anyone buying after the release of both versions would still have the option to get the cheaper iPhone version and the iPad owners would have a dual-platform version that doesn't make them feel like the dev held out just to make owners double-dip. After all, there is no guarantee an iPad version is coming out, so many dual-device owners buy with that in mind. In the meantime, I think that people who would have bought a game as a Universal edition at a higher price should have the freedom to communicate that to the dev in the discussion thread so they can see where they are losing business. My point regarding advertising is that FDG and Chillingo, both being site advertisers, I'm sure appreciate that their pricing policies are not being discussed in forums that might impact sales of their games. By putting the discussion in a totally unrelated forum, they may choose to educate themselves on why consumers aren't interested in the HD releases as much, or they may choose to be blissfully ignorant. I know other developers are "guilty" of this way of releasing games and don't meant to paint those two devs as evil or anything. I have bought PLENTY from each of them. But I've still felt burned by their pricing practices and I've tired of it. They can choose what to do about the situation. In the meantime, apparently the moderation of the site would prefer game-specific pricing policies and issues be discussed in a general forum, and I'll try to abide by that, but I disapprove of it as a forum discussion policy. It isn't like I posted the juvenile rant generated by the moderator with the intention of belittling what should be a legitimate discussion regarding iOS gaming. I'm 38, I've spent a TON (literally $800+) of money both in the app store and by clicking through ads on this site, and I don't feel like a legitimate frustration should be summarized in such a manner.
<Edited to remove response to snarky (and now deleted) post from MidianGTX> Thanks to ImNoSuperman for his feedback, although I'd rather hoped to be hearing from some developers so perhaps I can understand how they price iOS releases, as that might help people understand and then maybe posts criticizing an iPad release days after the iPhone release with no indication that an iPad version was coming might become less commonplace. They seem to be on here often enough to promote the products they offer.
It wasn't a bad move by IMNS to break the pricing debate out to a different thread, as all too often threads get completely railroaded by price discussion or other barely relevant complaints when all most people want to do is discuss the game itself, how to beat a certain level, etc. As far as your suspicions about advertisers, you can see our advertising and editorial policies here: http://toucharcade.com/toucharcade-advertising-and-editorial-policies/ If you want to read more about why developers prefer to release individual apps, check out this thread: http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=67511
My post wasn't snarky, it was entirely true. This issue and others like it have been done to death. It essentially boils down to two things, either the person ranting doesn't understand the situation fully, or merely has a difference of opinion about a matter which has no real right or wrong, and therefore is quite pointless arguing over. Each developer has several options open to them, neither one really seems to work better than the others, such is the mystery of App Store success. All they can do is attempt different strategies and see which one is lucky for them. Seperate versions have pros and cons, Universal apps have pros and cons, and each one has it's own group of supporters. As the age-old saying goes, you can't please everyone all of the time. In addition to that... sometimes developers just make mistakes. They'll learn. ...and your arguments really are difficult to read.
It was snarky, and it's sole purpose was the critique my writing and had NOTHING to do with the topic. Clearly you posted looking only to criticize and not add anything to the discussion, as I am pretty certain VCR manuals were not the topic at hand. Glad you decided to actually post on the thread's topic. You are certainly entitled to your opinion on both the topic and my writing, and if you want to talk about my writing, I'd advise you to open a thread on it in the appropriate forum. It seems to be the advice du jour. Hodapp, thank you for your feedback, a voice of reason regarding voices of reason, and the links to the other threads. I'll check them out. I rarely wander from game-specific threads.
.. since this thread was cut from another one it fells a bit odd since part of the discussing is missing.. my question would be, you as a customer what do you expect? what would you like to see? there are tons of things to consider for an release you have 4 major devices to develope for - 2g iphone/ipod, 480*320 low-res, low performance - 3g iphone/ipod, 480*320 low res, high performance - 4g iphone/ipod, 960*640 high res, medium-high performance - 1g iPad , 1024*768 highres, medium performance performance is for me a mix of hardware, ram, and fullscreen resolution for examply the ipad has only lousy 256 ram, which such an big screen it should have at least have the 512 of the iphone4, but now the newly released ipodtouch 4g has also only 256ram which is something to consider if you try to push the hardware. anyway.. what you see is what a developer is facing, different devices with different limitations. so know you see that the ipad has a different aspect ratio as the other devices..where you could have just rescaled an 4g screen for an 2g/3g iphone you can't do that if you make youre base size the ipad.. you need to cut something. again you have 2 screen sizes between iphone and ipad so you need in most cases 2 different guis to fit to the size of the actualy screen, resolutions is not the important factore here. buttons are the same size onscreen on iphone 2g or 4g just the resolutions of the buttons is higher/lower. now this is seperation of the hardware.. now comes the seperation of the appstore. each device class (iphone, ipad) has its own appstore. and then there is the appstore on itunes. the desktop application is the only appstore showing you everything. i personally don't use the itunes appstore at all. so visibility is different. where the iphone appstore has a big selection of subcategories to discover apps , the ipad has not.. its has featured apps and thats more or less there is, which is horrid imho. whats more interesting is visibility including charts. universal apps count to iphone and not the the charts it was bought on. so what are your options as a developer. you create a all in one app, including support for all devices of all age with ios3.x and higher this means you will propably never reach the (stupid) 20mb size limit so your app can be bought over the GPS/3G, need to have wifi access ok next thing is size again.. if you have an 2g or 3g device you couldn't care less for retina or ipad support. if i look at my projects ipad/retina support adds +200% to the projects art assets , for example 10mb become 30 (no i don't use heavly compressed jpgs to slim down project size) so what do you do? the majority of customers out there have low res 2g and 3g devices, sure the future is high res, but it will take some time till the market share shifts toward the "hd" devices. laying out all cards.. what do you think would be the best approach? i can't see a golden path, cause the the seperation is so diverse that there will be a pissed customer.
Curses! I too bought the iPhone version last night... Gotta say though... Great little game I'm probably gonna buy the iPad version as well. I'm a bit annoyed about buying it twice but in the end it's three bucks! Still less than a coffee at starbucks!
I completely agree. Its crazy to buy the same game, same content at a higher price for the iPad when the less expensive iphone version will work and display just fine on the iPad. Im only going to buy universal and iphone apps and forego the HD version. That being said, I would pay a bit more for universal apps.
Did u read my post? That was a move by a mod with no financial interest in the site/forums. I thought it was going way off topic with useless discussion especially for a good game like CtR. And if any of you guys think I'd actually try to make the forums dev friendly so TA can gain more ads, you probably didnt get to see the Samantha Swift thread I created before it got reported multiple times and Eli had to step in and delete it (and no, as far as I know mumbo'crappy'jumbo has never been a sponsor of TA, so dont jump on Eli and blame him for being biased towards them. It was a ridiculous thread to be made by anyone let alone a mod. So he had no option but to delete it ) As Eli explained TA will never do such a thing anyways. The forums, no matter how huge in comparison to other (non existent) iPhone gaming forums, they are too small in comparison to TA main site for them to even bother checking if someone is criticizing a sponsor of the site. Let alone doing something about it. So please stop making baseless claims. Or may be keep going on. I cant really be bothered to read anymore wall of text posts of yours and reply to them (just in case I do, it means I'm too bored and feeling the need for a god laugh) Ya, that wasnt obvious to you? I was referring to the multiple posts bitching about double dipping in that thread along with this one especially. That sounds way worse than even what I wrote actually. What I'm wondering is why the hell there wasnt any bitching in that FDG thread? I actually might not have cared about bitching in that thread coz of the game costing 4+7 bucks for both versions. Sure, a few people commented about being forced to buy the same game again, but mostly no one seemed to care about double dipping. Its the fact that people were bitching about something which costs 3 bucks for both versions is what I thought was ridiculous. Btw, this doesnt imply that you can all start bitching about ipad apps not being universal if the game costs more than a couple of bucks. I was just making a point here. Thats the only part of your wall of text I agree to. If for nothing else, then for the fact that I wont need to to explain something this simple so many times to people bitching about double dipping. Also, How bout not buying stuff which isnt worth your money? How hard is that? If it was worth 4 bucks to you for an ipod only version, then buy it. Or else dont. Will your bitching make the dev drop the price? Believe me it wont. Angry birds HD is still 5 bucks. So is fruit ninja. If a game is selling well, they wont drop the price. If they do, then it'll be coz of low sales. Not coz a few members of TA forums complained about the price. Universal and an SD version? wont work. iPhone is the big seller here. Most try to get the game out to the biggest market asap. Then they can work on it a lil more for the iPad version. Also splitting whatever sales a dev is getting from iphones into two apps is never going to be a preferred option in Appstore where the best way for an app to succeed is to try and get in the top sales charts. Dont blame devs, blame apple if you have to. Appstore with its 270k+ apps makes it real hard for good stuff to stand out without being in any of these lists. Also see this for actual dev experience with universal aps insetad of just making assumptions and claiming Universal is the best way to go. Please do some reality check. iPad has barely sold 5 million so far. There are over 120 million+ Ipod touch, iPhones out there. What makes you think 96% of those people without an ipad will pay extra for a feature which is useless for them?? You're making it really hard for me to reply here. I dont even know what to pick from this wall of (mostly incorrect) text and reply to. TA forums have about 7k active members. Dont think we can actually impact the sales of a game when there are atleast 7 million gamers in appstore (conservative assumption based on appx sales of angry birds so far). Thats about .1% only. So we cant really affect sales by buying/not buying a game. The only thing where these forums stand out is that its the best place for devs to interact with gamers and update their apps based on their feedback. Average age of a TA member would be somewhere around 15 I think. They dont want business advice from them. Even if I'm wrong here about the average age being 15, any dev will be better off not basing their pricing policies on a bunch of gamers. But considering appstore gamer is a young crowd in itself, they do value the gameplay feedback here. So another baseless assumption on your part once again. There were posts ranting about the game not being universal already and I didnt care. Everytime a game gets iPad version without any hint of its existence there are a few posts like that. Not a big deal. But to keep on complaining about the same thing over and over again is pointless IMO. Especially when its the price of the game which totals out for $3 for both ipad and iPod versions. If you feel burnt for buying an excellent ipod game for 99cents, you need a new job. Or more self control so you dont buy apps which make you feel 'burnt' when iPad version arrives. Oh you are 38. I thought you were 37. That explains it all I think. Anyways, I'm 29 and have a 4 yr old kid. I wake up at 11 Am and go to sleep at 4AM. I hate whenever it gets too hot in here. Love going on vacations. Hate traffic. My fav color is black. Would you like to go on a date with me sometime? (Translation: I have no idea what that had to do anything here. What difference does your age/appstore expenditure makes in this discussion?) Ya right. Whining about the same thing again and again is legitimate discussion for sure. No need to discuss the gameplay. Lets all post about the game not being universal and costing 3 whole bucks for ipad and Iphone versions combined. No one visits the forums to find out interesting games. All they want to read is why a game isnt universal. What should it cost for iPad and iphone version. Thats all one needs to know. Who cares about if the game is good enough or not eh. Guilty? Wow. Devs are "guilty" coz they think the extra work for an iPad doesnt warrant a few extra bucks? I cant even reply to that without using the kind of language which might force me to put myself in a timeout. I'd just advice you to file a case in legal court against all these "evil" devs so no one will ever dare to ripoff an appstore buyer again!!!
OK, I had kinda figured this was done, but since you decided to counter my "wall" of text with a small continent of it, I think a few of your responses merit a reply. The rest, I'm going to put in the "agree to disagree" category. I have to figure that if you didn't get my message that I am voting on this matter with my $$$, but using the board to explain why I am voting in such a way, there's not much more (or less) I can say about it that will make that point any clearer. It's worth pointing out your reply was longer than all my posts combined (not including the quotes from my postings), and that's not including your earlier reply. First... I did, actually "bitch", in both the Beyond Ynth thread and the Across Age threads, when the HD versions were announced. The Ynth thread was a bit different as at least they released both versions at the same time, and I commented that it's unfortunate they weren't doing a Universal release. Across Age I pointed out that releasing the "HD" version of a game that people likely invested many hours into and then thinking they would re-buy for the iPad, and then replay it again was a problematic idea as I'd rather spend the time and money on a new experience. Others felt the same way, some didn't. I opted not to buy it as an iPad version, or even play it on iPad since I'd have to start over again if I did so, and it's not a short game. Again, I didn't express my opinions on it with quite the... passion.... you seem to feel in your replies, but I wanted the devs to be aware of why some of their fans were making the purchasing decisions they were. Clearly you feel the forums are for a different purpose. I'm not sure how much gameplay is being discussed prior to the game's release, but as a moderator and voice of reason, you clearly have a better perspective on that. Actually, after going through your entire reply, this last paragraph was the only one I wanted to address beyond the inaccuracy of your comment about the FDG developers, as I think it pretty well captures all the issues of the rest of your rant. (I do hope you feel better, though.) First, as you know so much about this market (and this is a legitimate question, so before you go all sarcasm you can actually educate or continue your sarcastic (and really, pretty un-moderator-like) rant): Why does the iPad version cost anywhere from 2 to 4 times more than the iPhone version if all the work was already done for it other than scaling graphics and adjusting layouts? If the market is smaller, how does it make sense to charge that much more for a product that is a re-released I.P. that in many cases people have already played through in-part or completely? Doesn't it make more sense to then release the more expensive product first, then the cheaper one? This would be similar to the model by which movies are released: High-end, expensive, theater experience first, then the cheaper home video DVD option, then streaming (Netflix), then public broadcast (free)? Again, this is a real question, not snarky judgement on the entire industry. Please help me understand how the iOS market is different. (Ideally, someone with actual experience IN the market.) Second, it's pretty clear that I used "guilty" to mean they are doing the practice that I've written this "wall" of text about, not that they have broken some crime. In addition, I think I made it pretty clear that I have given those developers plenty of money, so it's not like I'm complaining without ultimately supporting them, both financially and by posting positive reviews on the App Store. (I'd post them here but apparently, according to you, not many people read these forums?) You seemed to view my whole post from the perspective of I am some guy wanting a my games for $0.99, Universal, and perfect, and I want 'em now, dammit. Say what you will, but my purchase history and support of all developers, including Chillingo and FDG, tell a different story. I'm not one who puts games on "watch lists" waiting for the price to drop from $1.99 to $0.99 because that dollar means so much to me... I pay whatever they ask whenever I want to buy it, and it's often the highest price, or whatever price it releases at. Sorry, but you don't "know" me, and it's quite clear you don't want to. You don't seem to read closely enough to indicate you have any interest in doing so. Therefore, your critiques of my character and many of my points just have no meaning to me. I'm good with that, and it's obvious you are too. Finally, I want to point out that several others were able to respond in a reasonable and polite fashion and actually addresssed some of my questions and issues without judgement or sarcasm. I again want to express my appreciation to them for taking the time. Glad I was able to give you multiple "god" laughs, and appreciate you reciprocating.
tl;dr Price discussions are overdone. A developer will price his app according to what ever works best for him. Stop trying to apply your little mathematical equations (ipad apps should be 1.5x iphone apps) to any business, it doesn't make sense if it doesn't earn a profit. Also, stop with the conspiracy theories please. TA is not necessarily biased if they don't agree with your views.
Lemme try and explain myself as politely as possible. I never defended any policy (be it relating to price of the app or the universal/separate version for iPad/iPhone). Best I tried do is reasonably support and guess why I thought the dev opted for this solution. If you want, I can reply to all your points in your post (probably in a PM as no one else really cares for those wall of texts) to the best of my knowledge. But that doesnt mean I'm defending that. I'm just trying to continue the discussion with my thoughts hoping to clear these doubts, misconceptions. Here, this will explain why I tried to keep the pricing/universal discussion away from the main thread. Take a look at these two threads.. Sonic 4 thread Same thread after clean up Read my 2nd post in the cleaned up thread. Hopefully you'll understand my intentions now. Do tell me which thread you'd want to read if you dont have a retina device? And if you care about retina display and want to express your opinion, would you not be considerate enough to other readers of the site and post in the complaints thread instead of discussing it in the main thread? My decision had nothing to do with devs. All I care for is readers of the forums which includes you and rest of the people complaining in those threads too. Feel free to discuss whatever you want on the forums. No one will stop you from criticizing anything including the forum moderation policies. Just remember not everyone cares about the same issue and the majority of the readers are looking for actual game impressions. Going through 5 pages just to realize there are 0 impressions so far is not something anyone wants. If you'll check a few of my old NZ threads(like this, this, this or this), I even try to compile all game impressions in one post so its easier for anyone who checks out the thread later and is not interested in reading through 3-4 pages just to find a couple of impressions. Most of you guys probably dont even know I have been doing it coz you skip the first few pages as you read them already. Still I waste my time hoping it'll help someone atleast. But, its not practical for me keep a track of all the threads here and compile the impressions in the thread. It takes time. I want and try to help out but I dont have that much time to waste everyday. I'd really appreciate if members will understand this and try to keep threads on topic and post discussions about price/universals in a separate thread instead. Please tell me, am I wrong here? As far as the rude comments directed towards you, that was coz I was pissed when you continued to claim TA is biased when I clearly explained thats impossible atleast in that particular thread. There is no bias going on here. Its not even going to hurt much to big publishers like chillingo even if they lose these 10000 odd sales. They do enough marketing to sell their games anyways. Still I apologize for being rude instead of explaining it without any snarky comments. Hope you understand why I decided to 'attack' you.
