Devaluating and destroying old classics

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by Aventador, Jan 30, 2014.

  1. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

    Jan 13, 2011
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    Arrrgh freemium chats, cant we get back to arguing about retro classics please ;)

    Again of course those old retro games wont have the same magic when i was 12 years old and buying some of them for the first time ever. In those days after waiting 6 minutes for a game to load on tape i would make sure i would play it a lot ! Even if the game was rubbish and i saved up a few weeks for £7.95 i would make sure i played the game regardless as i had to justify all that pocket money for this rubbish game !

    Roll forward 20+ years and its incredible not only the nostalgic feeling i get from some of these games but being able to play some of them a bit here, bit there, save my progress and come back to it.

    Having classics from the late 70s/80s/90s and early 00s all in one place on my phone is brilliant.
     
  2. slamraman

    slamraman Well-Known Member
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    Aug 27, 2011
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    Agree with PSJ above. I played Atic Atac for the first time in 30 years yesterday. Still magical. Games, like music and film, are 99% crap but searching and finding that 1% of magnificence makes it all worthwhile.
     
  3. Mene

    Mene <b>ACCOUNT CLOSED</b>: <em>Officially</em> Quit iO

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    Atic Atac.. Ohh Ultimate Play The Game made some awesome games, still love Jetpac, Tranzam, Knight Lore, Alien 8, Sabre Wulf :)
     
  4. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

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    #24 psj3809, Feb 1, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
    Yep got all of them on my device. Its amazing that those early games came out in i think 1983, Knight Lore in 1984 was stunning, got all of that in just 48k ! Wish devs nowadays tried to keep sizes to a minimum, now they can add any crazy high music/graphics as they dont care if the files 350 meg (when it could be perhaps just 70 ?).

    Many of those games above still play so well today

    Dont get me wrong i wont play Knight Lore for hours on end, some retro games i do as i can save them and try and complete them but Knight Lore was just too difficult. But those one of those games (Same with Jet Set Willy) where i'm happy to load up, have 5 minutes with it, hear those sounds, see those graphics and i'm instantly back to 1984 ! Great memories from those classics

    Also its like if youre a film fan, you cant take with you the 50 greatest films of all time in your pocket. However if you read many of these 'greatest games of all time' type books, the ability to have so many of these with me is immense.

    Eg....

    Sonic - A classic from the 90's, got it in my pocket
    Knight Lore - Mentioned above, had this as a kid, stunning looking game
    Mario Land - Got it via Gridlee plus a Gameboy version
    Elite - I must admit this is one game which doesnt play well years later but a quick nostalgic burst with this one !

    So many others, so i can read about these on iBooks, then seconds later i can give each one a quick go. Amazing.
     
  5. Mene

    Mene <b>ACCOUNT CLOSED</b>: <em>Officially</em> Quit iO

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    Actually I still play Elite.

    Okay.. Not the BBC Model B original but a free PC remake called Oolite which has loads of great mods to download. any fan of the original should check it out.

    I don't have a Speccy emulator on my ipad sadly, I did have one but you couldn't add your own games and afaik you can't buy some of my fave games.

    Ie:-

    3D Ant Attack, Millonaire, Scuba Dive, Special Operations, Cyclone, The Great Escape etc etc
     
  6. Stormourner

    Stormourner Well-Known Member

    Jan 31, 2014
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    I would rather say freemium should be turned into premium. I do play freemium games despite my dislike for energies and timers, some people can be fans of freemium games like me and MinoMonsters is one example because I'm MinoMonsters' biggest fan <3 I know MinoMonsters is a freemium game but I will never abandon my sheer love for the game

    I ain't gonna hurt you or anyone over the hatred toward freemium games
     
  7. Bool Zero

    Bool Zero Well-Known Member

    Dec 14, 2010
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    #27 Bool Zero, Feb 1, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
    Oh snap!
    You know it just got real when someone breaks out a Gelatinous Cube pic from the (D&D) Monster Manual!
     
  8. undeadcow

    undeadcow Well-Known Member

    Dec 4, 2010
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    #28 undeadcow, Feb 1, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
    Well played. That's the funniest thing posted in a long time.
    I do miss blowing into NES cartridges in hopes they'd work. There'd be little point in porting a game if it wasn't to capitalize on improved technology or modern features.
    One thing that's missing is paying a respectable amount of money for games making players appreciate them that much more. I've acquired my share of lukewarm releases that I trucked through because they had blown my budget and was able to appreciate them more. Now we have are knee deep in frivolous shovelware that's practically free; maybe it's both - harder to appreciate games I'm not paying for and quality that matches the dime a dozen approach. I don't blame developers for adopting cheaper games; it's irresponsible of Apple to spend 5 days+ "reviewing" all Apps but let whatever content deficient crap developers plop together onto App Store. It's a fine line between accessibility for indie developers and market integrity. We need more responsible quality control from Apple, not allowing anyone with $100 a year willing to split 30% of income on board... we need more material with some reasonable standard.

    I don't think it's just "classics" that are being destroyed, but the whole gaming "ecosystem" with a minority of serious games and gems slipping through (maybe ~10 games each week, out of hundreds of Apps launched). Eli compares this to McDonald's, but even fast food has FDA and nutritional guidelines. I think App Store is interesting because it's not necessarily based on what the average joe casual game wants (as with a McDonald's analogy) but lead by "developers" that are often more in line with scam artists or over enthusiastic hacks (this mainly refers to the 95+% of "games" not even referenced on TA). Altogether this supports a system that devalues games and tolerates flaky business practices not because users accept it or there's economic rewards (most apps fail) but because of an publication process so far removed from user preferences (anyone can get on App Store with anything, viable or not regardless of community interest).
     
  9. saansilt

    saansilt 👮 Spam Police 🚓

    Mar 23, 2013
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    Thanks. I tought it was gonna be lost in the page transition.
     
  10. Bool Zero

    Bool Zero Well-Known Member

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    #30 Bool Zero, Feb 1, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
    You hit on an excellent point there that I too have brought up in past debates. Simply put, the disposable and perceptively cheap perception of software nowadays largely contributes to the problem at hand. It's the direct problem that stems from the free/.99¢ mentality. Unsurprisingly, in most cases the more you pay for a thing the more value you place on it... I often feel this is also the unspoken reasons for the divide that lingers between the alleged "real" gamers mentality and their perception of mobile devices not being a perceived legitimate platform.


    I also agree with you on Apples standards on the matter, but I think we need to understand that Apple is not trying to promote a gaming market the least bit. I don't think we will ever see Apple have the same level of standards as that of Nintendo (remember the good old days when games came with the Nintendo Seal of Approval?), or at least what Nintendo strived for anyway. I don't think they associate software and it's quality as representative of their identity (which they should because just look at the perception of the Android marketplace), so long as their OWN software, iOS and such is up to snuff. I don't think they ever care to dictate a level of software quality outside their house as it means cutting into their profit margins with the current "any chef can sell his stew" so long as they are getting a cut of the sales.


    Which means we will be stuck with the general divide in gamers perception of the platform as being legitimate and viable. Supposed "real" gamers will continue to look at it and scoff, and sadly they should because the games representing the platform aren't the ones they are conventionally used to; rather they are the debatable freemium time sinks that many here even complain about. We may know there is more to the platform, but how can we argue when even looking at the top ten or even the top 100 shows a vastly freemium slanted environment.


    As for these new takes on classics... Well, it is the evolution of the industry, whether we like it or not. Games are designed for profitability now and gameplay to entice and coerce that profitability secondary. I can't blame the developers or publishers though, because gamers (and entry level non gamers) are just as guilty. What incentive do developers have to make a full fledge remake to a classic when it will most likely:

    A) in varying ways still not be considered acceptable to old guard diehard fans,
    B) would be considered too expensive for its premium asking price,
    C) would be considered to complex for the causal player or wouldn't entice a large enough influx of new players to the property,
    D) and would disappear in the sea of mediocrity that is the AppStore to be overlooked despite its level of quality

    I'll be the first to say I don't particularly care for freemium, but it can be done right in some cases. In the case of games like Ultima and Dungeon Keeper though (because quite frankly, I find these to be bastardizations of their franchises), I find the bigger problem is not that they are freemium but rather that they are so loosely associated and inspired by their previous games that they shouldn't even qualify as being part of those franchises. Honestly, they are mostly completely different games being marketed on name recognition and a skin to make them look attached to the property they are supposedly succeeding.


    I've played Ultima. That's not Ultima even in the loosest sense.
    I've played Dungeon Keeper. That is not Dungeon Keeper.
    That's just my two cents... Sorry for my ramblings!
     
  11. undeadcow

    undeadcow Well-Known Member

    Dec 4, 2010
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    #31 undeadcow, Feb 1, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
    It's amazing that a brand like Apple considered by many as revolutionary would be so narrow sighted. Unwillingness to support quality on App Store will eventually cost Apple unless they add support beyond GameCenter.
    I agree but add that publishers are now forced into a David/Goliath struggle with indie games forcing more pervasive methods for sneaking in profits. Digital distribution and increasing computer literacy allow an increasingly pool of "average joe" indie developers to release budget games that can compete with traditional studios crashing the market by giving players a chance to scoop up lower cost alternatives traditionally not available. There's also this silly perception many have that nearly every game is an indie title when so many are corporate products disguised as small caliber releases and a weird codependency some gamers have with feeling they need to "support" the little guy justifying away all cash grabs as necessary and logical. True indie development could be Apple's biggest strength if not for the following.
    I think this is the central problem we face with iOS gaming, people at large (myself included) see the platform as containing largely disposable fluff not to be taken seriously. I love the accessibility on iOS that anyone can release games that might otherwise not make the cut elsewhere, but there's too much junk - balancing accessibility for developers but only of reasonable content is necessary.
    Same here; I really don't think freemium is the main problem.
     
  12. undeadcow

    undeadcow Well-Known Member

    Dec 4, 2010
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  13. SherlockEB

    SherlockEB Well-Known Member
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    I simply hate freemium, but I've seen it done right. It's EA to blame on this games, and this isn't the first time they've ruined a game with weird iap methods. Just remember Madden NFL
    and earliest builds of Real Racing 3. I was really scared when I heard EA acquired Popcap and PvZ 2 was gonna be freemium, and very surprised to see it wasn't so bad. Still if this trend spreads over to Pc/console gaming that would be a nightmare. Problem is games main goal changes in a way I hate: Squeezing most out of every single person. And I wouldn't play a game that was designed/written with this in developers mind. Where is fun in that anyways?
     
  14. Yeah, it was so sad to see EA put wait timers into Real Racing 3, but wait timers might go to consoles too if they are successful in ios.
     
  15. Aventador

    Aventador Well-Known Member

    Jan 16, 2013
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    Thank you.I was going to post a long reply with multi-quotes yesterday but I lost the whole post when battery dried out which gave me a big headache.
    We have several threads discussion about freemium and IAPs already, but I wanted to stress out company's that are ruining games with big fan-bases behind them from which most are ready to pay the price once more if game is any good.I mean, having people that are ready to back up the game and cash in, and they just turn their backs to them ?!
    I will try my best to reply with long post again tomorrow to several people because I've been a bit vague in my opening and this post.
     
  16. muffie

    muffie Well-Known Member

    May 15, 2010
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    Mr. Lamborghini, check this out: http://www.baekdal.com/opinion/how-inapp-purchases-has-destroyed-the-industry/
     

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