Blacklisted by Apple?

That's not exactly what happened. I asked 2K to fix it and they told me to get a refund from Apple. I forwarded Apple 2k's email and Apple told me they couldn't give me a refund. I didn't pay $10 to unknowing rent a game for thirty days.

I only mentioned this story because the OP issue was also with 2k. Regardless if your dealing with a digital or brick and mortal store you expect your purchases to work properly for a reason amount of time. If things don't work it's important that someone standing behind the product and will make it right.

 

This is a long shot but try emailing tcook with your situation. It will get escalated to the executive customer service team and they might be able to resolve the issue. You could also try tweet to tcook saying you got blacklisted for one return of defective software.

 

Sorry you didn't get a positive outcome. It's important to stand up to Apple and let them know we won't tolerate these practices. I know Apple apologist will come running to Apple's defense however I would like to see how they feel with their accounts are blacklisted. By then there might not be anyone left to stand up for them.

 

With all due respect, I think someone needs to grow a thicker skin. Way I see it, message is there just to prevent people buying a game, playing it a while, getting a refund, rinse and repeat. Happened to me once too, didnt think about it twice. Taking it personally is quite a overreaction imo. Think it might also happen only if you try to buy the game soon-ish after receiving a refund.

 

I got the confirmation window for the first time 5 months after receiving the refund...

 

Apparently that part of my post is incorrect then.

 

My problem is that we have to sit around and guess what actually is its meaning. Why can't Apple be a more transparent about it? No one here is doing anything nefarious.

Honestly there's easier ways of stealing apps then buying it returning it and rebuying it.

 

To OP: You're just being too sensitive I think.
It is not blacklisted or anything.
It's just a notification

EDIT: Sorry, I misread the Apple's message.
You're right, I will be upset if I was you too.

 

I think the message is pretty clear. You're no longer eligible to return the purchase and get a refund. It's not a matter of being sensitive it's a matter of sensiblity.

 

You have completely missed the point.
It is a statement of reminder of the new terms and conditions that were brought in earlier in the year to comply with EUROPEAN LEGISLATION.
If you want to blame anyone, blame European Law and blame European Legislators.
Do y out really think Google doesn't have to comply with the exact same legislation?
Do you think it is better that they don't remind you?

You actually already agreed to this arrangement already.
Everybody did when the terms and conditions were changed earlier in the year and notice came up when people opened the App Store and purchased or updated an app and a notice came up that the terms and conditions had changed and they clicked agree to continue.
So the job is already done. The agreement already in place.
Others just don't happen to remind you as a cautionary measure when you proceed after a refund.
A simple cautionary reminder when one gets a refund and suddenly everybody has got the tin hats out and starts making false claims about being "blacklisted" or "flagged" when it is simply not the case and is in fact just a reminder to ensure they have an understanding of what the actual terms and conditions are.
It appears people would prefer not to know.

And ultimately it has changed nothing with the application of the "report a problem" method for refund requests that Apple already had in place.
It's rules didn't change and if one fulfils the criteria for qualifying for a refund using that methodology, the one that Apple already had in place anyway, they will still get it whether they downloaded the app or not.
As long as they have a legitimate reason for requesting a refund under the "report a problem" refund policy. Which is separate and additional to the actual legislation. A further layer of protection for the consumer.
The sole difference that actually matters in the real world is that the new system is an automated refund and the old (and still in place "report a problem" one) has an actual human being checking the criteria and reason for the request.

And yeah, crashing or doesn't work would be entitled for a refund under the "report a problem" criteria (a link to which is provided on every email receipt and beside every purchase in purchase history) and someone in support would process that refund (if it were within a certain time scale, not in excess of 30 days) without any problem and remove the app from your purchase history in the process.

That is it. No blacklist. No refusal to sell. No refusal to refund when a human being is involved. No conspiracy. No "flagging of account".
Merely compliance with European Legislation for automatic refunds.

It is already in yours and everybody's terms and conditions. How many times you have to be told this is beyond me. Would you prefer not to be aware of the legislation?

Talk about a MASSIVE overreaction to a system that everybody (yes Google also, it is European Law after all) has to comply with just because they actually are decent enough to make sure you know what the legislative rules are.
Next time, just read the terms and conditions.

Try reading the Google ones as well next time and see just how much they don't inform you of up front.
Maybe then you'll have a reason to think twice there too.
Or anywhere at all in Europe covered by EU legislation where digital download purchases are available.

 

It's not a reminder. It's you actively saying "I hereby lose my right to get back my money within 14 days".
And the problem is not the EU law but the different treatment of customers. If everyone would see that pop-up we probably wouldn't complain.

 

@Oldgamer & Powergamer:
What's so difficult to understand here? Rip73 spelled it out very conclusively already, and more than once.
I'll take the liberty to quote myself and point you back to http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=3591339&postcount=20 , which has links and quotes from both Apple's Terms&Conditions and the relevant European laws and clarification on those.

Again, you do not have a "right to get back my money within 14 days" in this case, as explicitly stated in the governing law.
I'll quote again from the relevant EU document:
If a trader provides a web link to launch streaming or downloading, the consumer would only lose the right of withdrawal after activating that link.

So, don't get your knickers in a twist, and relax about it. Take off the tinfoil hats, it's not an evil conspiracy by Apple to mistreat its customers or anything like that.

And @klink: My account also is what you call "blacklisted". And you know what? At first I was surprised, too. Now that I know what the law actually states, I don't have a problem with it. No need to "stand up to Apple" or similar nonsense.

If you don't like this, go lobby in Brussels to get the EU laws changed.

 

@Rip73 and @NullZone. Read this article and tell me if you still stand by your statements.

http://9to5mac.com/2015/01/13/apple-defends-against-eu-14-day-refund-abuse-with-app-store-alert-for-customers-with-excessive-refunds-on-file/

'In response, Apple has adjusted its App Store purchases slightly for customers who have an excessive number of refunds on file. This means people with a track record of refunding purchase effectively lose the right to refund their purchase.'

 

I already read that one, but I digress...
We are talking about two things here: The situation as per EU law, and Apple's take on it.

First, let's look at the law - again *sigh*:
This quoted sentence from the article is utter bollocks, unless I totally misunderstand the relevant law:
This means people with a track record of refunding purchase effectively lose the right to refund their purchase.
I again refer you to the earlier posts, for example http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=3589425&postcount=10
Read the linked document http://ec.europa.eu/justice/consumer...uidance_en.pdf, specifically page 65, section 12.2., part 1. The post even quotes the relevant section.
Summary for the lazy: You do NOT have a right to refund once you start downloading.


Next, Apple's approach to it, and how it relates to customer service:
a) Both the law and Apple's T&C state "...and his acknowledgment that he thereby loses his right of withdrawal" and "...and acknowledgement that you thereby lose your cancellation right" , respectively.
Wordings like this are what lawyers use as ammunition when needed. Even as a non-lawyer I can see that "acknowledgement" is not clearly defined here. Does accepting Apple's T&C - which contain a paragraph about this - already constitute "acknowledgement"? Or do you have to explicitly acknowledge for every purchase/download - which is what Apple does now, with the popup confirmation message.

b) Is this good customer service?
I already wrote in an earlier post that I don't think so.
Combine the fact that not every EU Appstore user seems to get this message with Apple's well-known evasive approach to things, and I give them a bad grade for it.
Good customer service in my book means to be open about decisions/actions like this.
Make your policies transparent. Give an explanation somewhere; say, on your company blog. E.g. "you will get this reminder of our T&C (see section blabla), in concordance with EU laws, if you do more than 2 refunds within a 4 week period". Most people don't read those laws, not to mention the T&C (this normally includes me, I admit) .
Or, simply show it to everyone, and provide an explanation as above.

But well, we all know that Apple is the posterchild for open communication and transparency on policies, no?

 

I surrender. LOL. If you're not a lawyer you should be one.

 

I take that as an at least slightly dubious compliment

 

Lawyer's are fine, in fact I married one. I learned not to argue with her.