iPad Atari requested to remove BreakClassic

Discussion in 'iPhone and iPad Games' started by bootant, Sep 18, 2008.

  1. bootant

    bootant Well-Known Member

    Aug 30, 2008
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    Junior Designer, Senior Coder, CTO, CEO, Chairman
    #1 bootant, Sep 18, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2008
  2. raps27

    raps27 Well-Known Member

    Aug 31, 2008
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    r u going to make them free:) LOL
     
  3. VeganTnT

    VeganTnT Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jul 19, 2008
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    Freelance Entertainment Analyst
    Orlando, FL
  4. dudehuge

    dudehuge Well-Known Member

    Sep 7, 2008
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    #4 dudehuge, Sep 18, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2008
    That sucks, the game is well done. But c'mon let's face it, it's not an original idea, so no ones at fault here. There's only one thing you can do, release them again for free, and try to snuff out all the business that they can make.
     
  5. DeadlySquirrels

    Sep 16, 2008
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    I have an idea: change the name to BiiTouch and BiiTouch3D, then change the look of the game and make the ball hit triangles that look like the ones in trism. :)
     
  6. You can't copyright nor patent ideas, at least in most countries. So telling people to get lost because they did a better implementation of your idea is insane. Now, using the term "break" or "breakout" does give Atari claim that you are trying to capitalize on their copyrights and trademarks. Which is a no-no. So just change the names and make them compete.
     
  7. dudehuge

    dudehuge Well-Known Member

    Sep 7, 2008
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    #7 dudehuge, Sep 18, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2008
    What if I copied the idea and gameplay for Shards grafik, call it Fragments and release it for $0.99, and for example sake it turned out to be better than yours. (I like your game I have it btw ;P) Would you feel the same?
     
  8. Yep, I would be fine with that. After all, it's not like I didn't take ideas (a.k.a. inspiration) from other games. If being like another game was the only criteria needed to get others out of the market there would only be one FPS game. And just think how boring that would be!
     
  9. tosui

    tosui Well-Known Member

    Aug 26, 2008
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    Toronto, Canada
    I don't know what the intellectual property laws are in America (I'm in Canada - we're covered!), but unless they're going to go after every implementation of the idea and not just the ones that actually represent competition for them, then I'm with the "kiss my a$$" camp! Change the name and wish them luck competing with you!

    I'm telling all my friends to buy BreakTouch3D or whatever name you call it, and they're both gonna buy it!
     
  10. Oliver

    Oliver Well-Known Member

    Well, without knowing exactly what Atari told you guys I just can't say something to this. However, of course your games are a copy of breakout. We even had breakout on our old nanos builtin and it's well know that it was developed by steve wozniak for atari. And the review in the store say "that's breakout for the iPhone". So I think it understandable that Atari sees a connection between your games and their games. And now to the interesting stuff, what exactly did Atari tell you? :)
     
  11. Pyrofer

    Pyrofer Member

    Aug 26, 2008
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    I have to agree. I was first in the AppStore with ROCKFALL. However, when iDigga (Digga) came out, what did I do? I said, "Oh good, another cool game" Rather than try to sue them. Then Rocky came out, again I was happy because healthy competition is what open free markets are about!

    If they can write a better game than me, I should get better! Not use dirty legal threats and intimidation to force them to take down a game that maybe the customers prefer. Because who loses out really? The customer.

    I am not able to defend a legal challenge, be it right or wrong. I beleive that I have a right to have Rockfall in the AppStore, and yet ive taken it down at the Request of First Star Software because its not worth the legal battle.

    You CAN NOT copyright or patent a game idea, or every FPS game would get sued by iD software, Every Racing game would get sued by (i think) Atari etc.

    If I didnt have a family to worry about first Rockfall would still be in the Appstore and you would be reading about my legal battle. But I have a child and a wife to support first.

    Im sorry to hear your games are being taken out in the same way. I wonder what the writers of these games would have thought if somebody else was able to sue THEM just because of a timing issue. Just because you got there first it doesnt give you the right to extort money from the idea for all time.

    No company has its right to make money protected under law, if games developers are threatened by competition they are in the wrong job, or need to get better and make better games. In the end it helps the market, drives quality up and prices down, and that is good for the consumer.
     
  12. crunc

    crunc Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2008
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    I'll be a bit of a devils advocate and suggest that perhaps it would be better for everyone if developers created new games instead of making slight variants of long existing games. Mind you, I have purchased several breakout/arkanoid variant games and enjoy them (Chimps Ahoy! and Space Out), so, yes, this is devils advocate stuff. Still, in the end I think that original games are better then more of the same. Just look at all the Sudoku games. Is the iPhone/iPod Touch better off for having 500 Sudoku games? I don't think so. If even half of those developers instead developed something original, we'd have more and better choices of games available to us.
     
  13. davidmdowning42

    davidmdowning42 Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2008
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    #13 davidmdowning42, Sep 18, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2008
    Yeah, I stoped buying whole heartedly into the competition always helps when I noticed how many different brands of pickles there were at the grocery store. I don't know if it would help for there to be less, but it doesn't help that there are more either.

    That's totally off the subject though. I think it's a lame move for Atari.
     
  14. spacecowgoesmoo

    spacecowgoesmoo Well-Known Member

    Sep 4, 2008
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    Composer / Level Designer @ Bovinedragon Software
    Los Angeles, USA
    Maybe if there are any lawyers here, they could help you out?

    You probably shouldn't have used the word 'breakout' in you app description though :)
     
  15. jdrambio

    jdrambio New Member

    Sep 18, 2008
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    I have mixed feelings on this.

    On one hand, legally there seems to be no copyright or patent protection on original game concepts. So these developers may technically be in the clear for copying these game concepts.

    On the other hand, as a developer, this lack of intellectual property rights is very frustrating. At one point in time these games were novel concepts. I would be heart broken if someone took my game concept, developed it for another platform, called it something different, and released it as their own before I had a chance to port it myself. If that happened, legally there isn’t much I could do. Does that seem right? It kinda makes me sad.
     
  16. davidmdowning42

    davidmdowning42 Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2008
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    but then I'd never have gotten to play Golden Axe Warrior on my Sega Master System!
     
  17. troile00

    troile00 Member

    Sep 11, 2008
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    #17 troile00, Sep 19, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2008
    Legal battle royale

    No need to go through a legal battle royale, I really don't think it is necessary.

    "The idea for a game is not protected by copyright. The same is true of the name or title given to the game and of the method or methods for playing it" (U.S. Copyright Office, 2008).

    However, "Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author’s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form" (U.S. Copyright Office, 2008) and:

    Some material prepared in connection with a game may be subject to copyright if it contains a sufficient amount of literary or pictorial expression. For example, the text matter describing the rules of the game, or the pictorial matter appearing on the gameboard or container (U.S. Copyright Office, 2008)


    In all honesty I can see if they had beef against Break Classic. The pictoral manifestation of the idea seems extremely similar to theirs. Breaktouch 3d on the other hand has a radically different manifestation and expression. Round Paddle Vs Flat, Cylindrical 3d play area vs Flat 2d play area, Individual cubes instead of a long lines of non-individualized rectangles. The idea may be extremely similar, but its manifestation is clearly not. According to copyright law, they do not even have claim to the name, though you can change it if it makes you feel comfortable. See for yourself at:

    http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html (I hope the posting of links isn't against forum rules. If it is, I really wont do it again)

    All in all, this news is terrible since I have downloaded your game and have not even had a chance to play it yet (I'm waiting a few days to unpack my iPod Touch) and I was looking forward to the many updates you would put out. So to re-iterate: They may have a case against you with breakclassic, but I do not see how they could possibly ask you to remove breaktouch 3D. I wish I knew what reasons they stated for it.

    I would also like to see apple offer some protection to game makers against the bullying of larger companies (Atari). Perhaps require that copyright infringment claims come through them, at which point their lawyers assess the program on behalf of it's software suppliers (you bootant) to determine the validity of the claim. If apple's lawyers found something was at fault, they would simply let the developer know what they need to change to conform, or if the company filing the complaint (Atari) is just blowing smoke. At that point the developer (you bootant) could decide to change what was needed, or chill knowing everything was fine. Of course apple would have to require the developer (you bootant) to make whatever changes were necessary during a specified time frame in order to protect the company filing the claim as well. Not that apple's lawyers dont already have their hands full, but I think this is just very unfair bullying on Atari's part.
     
  18. arn

    arn Administrator
    Staff Member

    Apr 19, 2008
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    They probably have a trademark on the name, though.

    arn
     
  19. whooley

    whooley Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2008
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    I think it's hard to have a "one size fits all" rule.

    As someone said, if we prevented developers from being inspired by existing game, we'd have exactly one FPS, one RTS, one racing sim, etc. etc.

    On the other hand, I have no sympathy for developers who just take someone else's game, make some cosmetic changes, tweak the name and try to make money off it. Get your own ideas! :)

    Sheesh, my problem is I've about a dozen original game ideas nothing like any iPhone game out there but it'll take me months to develop them!

    I think it's all about how close the "copy" is to the original.
     
  20. troile00

    troile00 Member

    Sep 11, 2008
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    True. If that's the case though, a simple name change (at least for Breaktouch 3d) should fix the problem.

    I was wondering if Atari would even bother to give the reason for wanting it removed, or if they simply said "Your application violates 'blah blah blah'" knowing it was a simple name thing but not caring to say so.

    After all, if the goal is to remove the competition, the less the developer (bootant) knows, the better right? All he has to know is that a company with more resources and influence than himself is looking at his application in a mean way and threatening legal action.
     

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