I actually have an interesting dilemma... I can buy a brand new iPad 2 right now for half the retail price. (NZD$400 instead of $799) OR I can wait and get the new one whenever it's released. Thoughts?
All the people using the iPad for work doing presentations, CAD, in the classroom, for portable portfolios, project proposals etc etc must be wrong I guess. These people may or might not even have a single app that is geared to movies, music or Facebook. It might be a waste to you but to a huge population it is not. This comes from someone who refuses to purchase a game unless it contains Game Center. That's not elitist? Did you hear the news btw? Mountain Lion is coming this summer and will include Game Center - how you going to keep up with all that on your PC? Just really get the feeling you like to argue for argument's sake.
I'm reading this topic, and now posting in it in my bed via my Galaxy Tab. This would be incredibly awkward with a laptop, and my girlfriend wouldn't sleep too good with one of those things humming away at her... These kind of advantages make tablets/iPads worth the cost. The way I see it, I'm able to 'take the internet with me' when I leave my computers. Other uses for iPad/tablet... - Perfect portfolio displaying device - Most portable (decent sized) computers ever, I take this to friends' houses to show my projects etc., not easy with a laptop - Great for presentations - Amazing communication device: Skype video calls etc. - Perfect interface (touch screen > mouse, where pinpoint precision isn't important) - Doubles up as digital photo frame - Multiplayer portable games with one device - Great eBook reader If I didn't work with PCs, I'd go tablet-only!
Yeah, we use iPad 2s at my high school as replacements for our old MacBooks, but they're kind of a hassle. The only positives I can really think of is that it's lighter than a laptop, much more interesting/fun to use, and it has a much better battery life. The negatives way outweigh the positives though. Typing on them is kind of a pain (and auto-correct often makes it worse or just doesn't help), they have severely limited functionality (compared to a Mac even!), they have an extremely high rate of theft (sadly by other students -lower class men- who sell them to get money), and there's issues getting them to properly work with older hardware like printers, servers, etc. (they can work with all the hardware we have, it's just a pain). Dumbest thing about them is that when they're stolen, security won't track them (and they know that they can). They just remotely shut them down/wipe them- which is stupid because the thieves just sell them as is or for parts (and the smarter ones get them working again). iPads aren't a bad replacement for a computer if you're really old and don't need to use it for much, but if you need to actually get stuff done, they kind of suck. Main reason I'll never replace my computer with an iPad is that you can't edit images a la photoshop/gimp with ease on it. It makes a good companion to a computer, but definitely not a replacement. As to them being essential to the larger population, I beg to differ. I've known several people that bought tablets to replace their computers, and they realized that it just didn't work. A lot of them ended up buying computers again, and replaced their tablets with smart phones- basically EXACTLY the same thing, except one is incredibly portable, and the other is cumbersome and semi-portable. I see smart phones becoming more and more important- not tablets though. What kind of loser lugs around a tablet with them wherever they go? I could see it if you had a backpack or suitcase on you for your work/school, but in any other case, having a backpack just for a tablet is lame. The thought of somebody whipping out their iPad while they're out and about to use it is hilarious (like, somebody is walking down the street using their tablet how you'd use a smartphone). Typed all of this on an iPad 2 btw.
I agree with many of your earlier points. Of course, as backtothis said, this is a very pro-Apple site. It's expected that people would argue Apple products are better than all else despite valid arguments of price and practicality (see Hodapp for example). In all honesty, any Apple product I buy would be for accessible gaming. Neat apps and features are just a plus. I understand that others have different uses for their devices but for me, the iPad is not worth it. I thought about nabbing an iPad2 a few months ago but in hindsight, I'm glad I held off. Not only has iDevice gaming ceased appealing to me for the most part (apart from random puzzlers and score challengers), but new 'revisions' are introduced far too often for my liking and it always seems like you're missing something if you're not upgrading to the newest hardware. That's the biggest drawback, IMO. It's just not worth it.
I think it's a waste that's why I said waste instead of spend. If you want to buy an over-sized iPod than be my guest. Have you researched anything about the new Windows 8 tablets or are you just so deeply entrenched in Apple's back pocket? As far as Mac vs. PC, that's your own personal opinion. I could care less what OS you choose to work with. I just think Apple's stuff isn't worth its weight in gold. Personally, i'm a fan of Windows 7 and i like the look of Windows 8 much more than anything Apple is offering. Okay! I'll just stick my "agreement tag" on tygamer's post when it comes to Apple and the iPad. Yeah, because I decided I didn't want to buy a Chillingo game that didn't have GC. Pretty sure I've bought a ton of games this year that don't have GC to support devs. I've broken my no GC, no buy rule waaay too many times. And if it is elitist, it definitely doesn't compare to what Hodapp said. Did you read anything about Microsoft, Windows 8, and its plans for unification. I'd much rather be on that ship than the Apple one. The reasons you listed weren't all that important (most no all IMHO), but you struck a chord I'm leaning towards. A Windows 8 tablet sounds like something that can actually replace a laptop or at least not seem like a giant iPod. The plan is two tiers: consumer and functional. Heck, the new ultrabooks seem as if they'll be making the iPad look inferior. Look at Windows 8. I'm not officially sold on it, but it's definitely the closest I've come to seeing purpose in tablets. If the higher tiered tablets from Msoft can't replace a laptop then i still might not get one. However, the Msoft 8's look a lot more awesome than the iPad 3, so I might buy one as a more functional toy. I'm going to post some links at the end. Read the comments, they're more insightful. But here's my favorite article because it shows what I want in a tablet a bit more clearly. Focus on the comments! http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/09/13/samsungs-windows-8-tablet-needs-a-diet/ Spoken like a true fanboy, eh? -------------------------------- Links for Windows 8. The comments are more insightful than the main articles, but I'd advise reading them as well. Feel free to quote and debate stuff. I'd love to hear all the Apple lovers comments/views. video: http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/windows-8-tablet-vs-ipad-running-ios-5-video-16-09-2011/ http://www.extremetech.com/computing/118689-windows-8-vs-mountain-lion-does-microsoft-stand-a-chance http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow/story/265435/windows-8-vs-mac-os-x-lion-feature-by-feature http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/12/windows-8-tablets-world/ http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/microsoft_news/232600242 http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/windows-8-vs-windows-7-vs-os-x-lion-1026401 http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/09/16/windows-8-fuzzy-hit-targeting-for-touch-explained/ http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/89740-will-the-xbox-720-run-windows-8 http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/09/13/samsungs-windows-8-tablet-needs-a-diet/ None of these should be deleted since they're not from game review sites, right?
Goofy, you've admitted several times your opinion is based on no first-hand experience. I'm not arguing with you, but you've mentioned something I feel is a little strange. How do you "cross-reference" an opinion? [you've mentioned you do reference and cross-referencing on articles, while you're obviously focusing on the comments] Why don't you (all) just drop it and help me with my dilemma instead?
C'mon guys, it's just Goofy's personal opinion/tastes, you act like he's done something wrong. Argue nicely and you might change people's minds. Be condescending and you're just going to antagonise people. Goofy, if tablets sort of interest you, but you don't think that they'd provide enough of a service to be worth the price (which is the impression I'm getting), consider these options: Amazon Kindle Fire is a damn good Android tablet at a budget price. $200! It's sold at a loss, like game consoles, to try and profit from book sales. Amazon have taken the older version of Android (for mobile phones) and completely overhauled it for tablets, making it behave more like an iPad/Kindle than a Honeycomb device. It's awesome. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugy3pQWSUGo Advent VEGA is a good system (not sure what it's called in the US, but it has a different name) if you or a friend knows how to hack Android. It's incredibly cheap due to being comprised of leftover parts of other Advent products (a netbook screen, an old low-res webcam etc.) and it's default Android 2.2 OS is pretty naff, but there's a tonne of power inside it so once you root it and stick the XDA Developers' version of Honeycomb (Vegacomb) on it, it's absolutely godly for the price. It's definitely one you have to tinker with to get something good out of but if you know this stuff, or know somebody who does, it's a huge saving on a great device. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktws17IiP34 Just avoid any budget tablets with resistive touch screens, they're just terrible. These two are the only sub-$300 ones I'd recommend (out of the ones I've tried). The VEGA may not be a keeper but it's a great introduction to tablets, it was my first step, I was able to try out the tablet form of computers for a while and decide if I wanted to go for a higher budget one, and it convinced me that the convenience of a tablet was worth it, I just needed something sleeker with a better screen for showing my portfolio. Kindle Fire, on the other hand, is so good for the price that you'd probably stick with it for quite some time! iPad's advantage is the app store. It's great to go 'I want something new for my iPad today' and to enter this app store where you're spoiled for choice of all kinds of exciting new apps and games for it, whilst on Android it mostly feels like you're sifting through total rubbish to try and find something decent. The Amazon Kindle comes with the Amazon app store, which obviously is a nice option because it offers you only apps which have earned Amazon's seal of approval, but you can easily put the Android Market on there if you want more options. EDIT: Just saw your other post. Windows 8 does look good, yeah, though I can't help but feel that MS are compromising their desktop OS (which is what Windows has always been so good at being) for the touch generation. Remember that Windows 8 mobile devices (tablets etc.) are going to be running XNA only, so you won't have full access to PC software like you do on Win 7 tabs. I love my Xbox 360 since the latest update though, it uses an interface based on the Win 8/Windows Phone 7 one and it's brilliant how everything takes on the same interface, the consistency is just great. The reason I'm not convinced with Windows tablets, though, is because essentially we're looking at a desktop operating system, now attempting to spread across all different formats, rather than an OS built for the type of device it's on. I mean iOS was designed for phones, and the iPad (like some older Android Tablets) feels limited because it's stretching a mobile phone's OS to what's essentially supposed to be a small computer (it seriously needs an accessible file system by now). Android Honeycomb was designed entirely for tablets and it shows. When it's compressed down for phones (Ice Cream Sandwich) it doesn't feel right and it'd be no good for a desktop/laptop. I guess what I'm saying is that I'd rather use an OS specifically designed for the type of device it's running on - Honeycomb for tablets, iOS (or Android 2) for phones, Windows or OSX for computers. I hate the idea of running a mobile-style 'one app on screen at a time' interface on a freaking PC, no taskbar or anything... At least OSX Lion confined it's crappy iPad copy stuff into the app launcher and left the rest as a PC operating system. They compromise the PC OS to make it work on tablets and Kinect, they compromise the tablet OS to make it work on PCs... Jack of all trades = master of none, ya know what I mean?
What? I said I've used an iPad. I've just never personalized one. I've also used Macs quite a bit. I have no experience with Ultrabooks if that's what you meant. I was going off of specs and reviews. As far as cross-referencing, I meant looking at the potential of each device and what it's used for. Yes, it is an opinion but after reading enough of them, you can idealize what's best for you. Plus, I have experience with the iPad. Plus, those opinions are based off of what Apple and Microsoft bring to the table. I'm using them to help me better understand the situation plus link it with my own experience. Also, when someone gives an in-depth comment, you can look up what they were talking about. For example, I research the new processors or other technology being brought to the table. As a consumer, I obviously can't test/try everything. @DistantJ Thanks! The Fire is something I would get for my mom. I'm pretty comfy with the iPod/smartphone and laptop setup I have currently. What I'm really interested in is all of the capabilities/functionality and unification that Microsoft is planning to bring with Windows 8. It's what a tablet should be IMO...a tablet-PC. It's clear to anyone, even somebody that hasn't used an iPad, that it's strictly a consumption device. Edit I'm not looking for a consumption device. I read real books. I buy real movies when I want one or just rent and watch on the big screen. Plus, I hsve Netflix. I have a computer and smartphone/iPod. I want something that actually has the potential to be a replacement or a very functional toy. At a price that's worth it, whether $100 or $2000.
well what i find odd is that you compare an actual product to something on the horizon.. saying that windows 8 on tablets (which won't be able to run the same apps as the desktop version if you run the arm version) is pretty pointless since its not finished and there is product to compare too.. all you got are promises.. i also find it odd to compare an ipad to a full blown tablet pc which will cost you a couple grand instead of lousy 499 and they are so expensive because they are pcs filled with notebook tech.. you need tenfold more power to run the resource hungry windows programs than stuff running on android or ipad tablets.. thats like comparing a bamboo with the top of the line cintiq.. and saying the cintiq is superior so you have to buy that.. everyone should buy what they feel they need, if its a slow and outdated kindle fire , a fast android table in the ipad price range, the ipad itself or some tables pcs running windows.. thats up to everyone them self.. that does not negate the fact that customers are properly happy with either of thoose devices if it fits their needs.. any other discussion is absolutely. of course you can compare them.. but you can't judge their users and call their investment wrong because you don't like it.. thats silly and childish no matter if your an apple fan, android fand or windows fan.. except if your an game&watch fan.. they blow everything out of the water.. i mean the battery life.. thats like eons on a battery.. not whimsy 10 hours or so.. ;D and back them i had such a thing in my watch! that was awesome..
I don't care about what you've said previously - that's not a debate I'm interested in getting into, but this part I disagree with. ANY device is only as good as what you use it for. As an example, there have been entire games created on the iPad. Just recently(ish) there was a game where the graphics were entirely painted on the iPad. While I agree it's primarily a consumption device, you just can't write it out because it never occurred to most users to use it creatively - outside of what it was designed for.
so if the ipad3 is of no interest to you.. why are you in this thread? i read real books too, but also read ebook, i read real magazines, but i also read digital ones.. does one thing need to exclude the other? i watch digital movies and i have a huge amount of retail movies in several racks (not sure what you mean with real movies tho) so what difference does it make? apparently you neglect every comment about actual users that the ipad is an very functional toy.. there is nothing comparable in its price range and the ipad is not expensive.. at least not with what it offers.. a quick look to similar prices android devices show you that.. there is a reason why the ipad is successful.. and its definatly not because its hip and made by apple.. not every apple product flies of the shelves that fast.. again to everyone his own.. some like big chicks, some like small ones.. some are into men.. so what? i would not sign this.. this is an individual thing.. there are sound editors, gfx editors, word processing, 3d modeling tools, level editors and whatnot available on the app store.. of thoose apps suit an individuals need can't be generalized. i know an musician who loves garage band on the ipad2 and creates the rough versions of his music now with this tool sitting on the couch, on the toilet , in the bath tub, at night in bed, on the commute to a contractor or some of our meetings.. he absolutely loves it but he also has very expensive sound equipment , sound libraries and whatnot.. where he finalizes the stuff.. so you can't generalize.. for me personally its a consumption device.. but i've seen people create amazing things on it.. so the possibility is there.. but then again it may not be the solution for everyone.. how can anything be it..?
Nothing against the iPad I quite like my iPod and find it useful but I'm pretty sure I could accomplish any task faster on my netbook view and edit more filetypes and have a far better browsing capability. If I ever change to a tablet it will have to do all that and convince me it isn't going to break easily I really just don't like fragile gadgets but I do admit I'd love to own one of the smaller Samsung ones just to play with especially the 7.7 plus I just can't believe how much tech they got into it.
I understand what you're saying, but we don't know how the Windows tablets will priced. They might be priced extremely competitively. Plus, they're releasing two types of tablets. I was looking in terms of functionality to portability ratio. Isn't that why most ppl like tablets/iPads, for portability and what-not. I was also factoring in longevity, but yes, this is subjective. I never said the investment was wrong. I said it's not worth it's weight in gold, which is obviously my opinion. Even Hodapp, who has raved about their use, expresses that it's mostly a consumption device. It is what is! If that's what you like then so be it. But yeah, you're right, I'm arguing/speculating the future and trying to see where I want to be at in it. I don't see anything wrong with that. Plus, there are Windows 8 demos that have been circulating. Okay, even if that's the case, how will it fare if Windows accomplishes its goals? I've used the iPad and it can't replace my laptop. And yes, I've thought about buying one, it's unnecessary IMO.
The thing is, I think Windows 8 destroys every single thing which gives PCs an advantage over tablets... I'm typing to you on a Mac, with my Win 7 laptop next to me, in a nice window, with my friend typing to me in messenger in a window to the right, and my game development going on in several windows on my laptop. Multitasking. This wasn't any good on phones, so Apple created a 'one app at a time' OS for phones. Tablet PCs weren't working, so Apple upscaled the phone OS to them instead of downscaling PC OS's and it worked. Google then took it a step further and created Honeycomb - the structure of a phone OS with a taskbar and multitasking features of a PC, somewhere between smartphones and PCs, which is exactly what tablets are. Then, Microsoft decided to make one OS which is the same on all systems. Meaning a PC with no taskbar, one app on screen at once... Essentially, after Windows 7, non-Apple-non-Linux PCs will be running on a mobile phone OS. That's absolutely pathetic, if you ask me, a complete misunderstanding of the zeitgeist and popular technology. In the Windows 8 demos a woman says 'Now I'll just send a Tweet'... On my Mac, I hit the twitter icon, I get a nice little Twitter window on top of the stuff I'm doing, I happily Tweet and leave it running behind my other work, always visible and easy to quickly switch to. On Win 7 there are similar twitter apps, or you can fire up IE in a nice Window. On Win 8... Your entire computer has to be dedicated to Twitter until you're done tweeting. This sets PCs back 100 years. Tablets and Smart Phones have simple operating systems because they are limited. Microsoft have actively limited PCs for no apparent reason, and it is just ridiculous. I could never do my work on an OS like that, so I'll either have to stick with Win 7 on my laptop, or get a MacBook when I upgrade. I can't see how anybody could say 'tablets are too simple, but Windows 8 is a good idea', no offense...
+1 as an example apple never intended the iphone to be a gaming platform.. the developers out there made this happen.. and due to the versatility of the devices they are now one of the biggest competitors to the classic mobile gaming handhelds..
I'm trying to wrap my head around it. Plus, the conversation wasn't a praise the iPad one. Anytime I say real, I mean tangible. Sure, I don't own what's on the dicc, but I can do what I please with disc. I never said i was a 100% sold on the idea. Plus, the devices aren't out yet and are still being polished/refine with feedback from users who have demos. I've seen a lot of great points from people who have taken the time to leave comments on various sites. Some claim to be devs, others don't. If you read through what i posted, you find a bevy of comments from people that can articulate about the subject a lot better than I can. WE don't know what the limitations will be if any, and Windows 8 is an overlay. It just happens to be a 'seemingly' good one. The Twitter thing I'm not sure about.
