Universal Arcane Quest 3 - Rise of the Fallen - Tabletop RPG

While you have progressed further in the game than I have, I have different feelings about what seems to be making a good tank in the game.
The summoners minions are excellent tanks. The added benefit is that by using the two summoner classes in the game you have a party of six, not four.

There is a tactic, for want of a better word, in the game that makes a party with two main tanks, one reserve tank and the rest range fighters almost unstoppable.

I wont explain it here as it does make the game a lot easier, but most gamers who play these sort of games know it anyway. It is an unfortunate consequence of having a dungeon layout with rooms that have a restricted entry point. #

 

@stubbieoz: Nah, I think we are pretty much in the same boat about tanks
I usually go for offense first, defense second - following the "a good offense is the best defense" strategy.
And as I wrote, the "Horizon in Flames" dungeon is the first where I'm really taking a beating. Everything before that was a complete breeze, with enemies almost never hitting, and then only for pitiful damage.

I fully agree that the Summons make great tanks, to no small degree because they are expendable. And having 2 more bodies is nothing to sneeze at either.
For a full tank party, I'd use: Dwarf and the 2 Summoners for sure. 4th hero I need to think about a bit, no preference comes to mind immediately. Maybe Paladin for the healing.

And well, the good old "block the hole" tactic should be pretty obvious to anyone who ever played a similar game before

 

And just completed "Horizon in Flames", with everyone beaten up but alive
The last 3 rooms - and especially the boss (one-shot kill ) - where a lot easier than I expected from the other parts of the dungeon.

Got a levelup for everyone except the Amazon, and some nice new equipment that I need to repair and distribute. With a bit of armor upgrade, and a few more points I put into Con, the next dungeons should be a lot easier going I think.

 

How far into the campaign is Horizon in Flames? How many main quests have you done to get to that stage please?

 

It was the 7th main quest, first one on the second continent/island. Going by the size of the map (it's huge, I just didn't really notice before), I guess I'm somewhere between a quarter and a third through it. So quite a lot to go still, it looks like

 

Equipment & Skills max level / balance

Just noticed that some equip, like shoes and gloves for the Amazon and Wizard, max out at level 6 already.
I think all heroes should have at least one item each in the following tiers:
Level 8/9, level 10/11, and 12 (current max level).
Barbarian & Berserker have a huge advantage here, as they go up to level 12. First really unbalanced element I found.

UPDATE:
I noticed the same for skills; e.g. the Amazon's Lizard transform has only 2 levels, while e.g. Fireball goes up to 5.
Even if it turns out well balance-wise (don't think so), it still does not look good.

Oh, and: *reducing* Plague's mininum damage with increasing skill level is just wrong. I think I've seen that with other skills as well, but cannot recall right away which.

On the plus side, Wizard with almost 60 Mana has enough now to last almost a whole dungeon level without needing potions.

 

Just throwing out here really quick that I have so much leftover equipment and found items that I started to level up the rest of the circus
For now only to level 3 for most, and Ranger to 5, then I can spread almost everything in storage around.
Playing with Dwarf, Paladin, Evoker, Shaman. Battles do take longer than with my main group in the same dungeon - 2-3 rounds instead of 1 and sometimes 2. So yes, seems my Barb Bers Ama Mage group is the stronger/st damage combination.

UPDATE:
I tried "Moonlight in the Graveyard" with the new group at level 1 and almost no equipment: did not work, I gave up after 3 rooms because I ran out of resources.
Level 2 and some stuff, and it was a breeze
Mainly due to using the Summons as meatshields (they didn't do that much damage). If one dies, I just summon a new one, don't have to waste healing on them.

 

The Summoner group completed level-5 dungeon "Help to the Warriors" at level 3, without any problems. Everyone's level 4 now. Fights still take longer than with the damage group, though.
Back to going a bit further with the main group till I have equipment piled up again

 

You are half way through. #

 

Thanks. I just estimated based on the undiscovered parts of the map and comparing them to the first continent.
Did you complete the game already? A bit back you commented that I'm farther in than you, so now I wonder if you pulled ahead

 

re enemy HP

@Marco:
I think the enemy HP are okay for "normal" parties, and only the extreme end of firepower has it too easy. But on the other hand, that's what optimising is for
My "Team Summoner" needs everything on one target to kill an 8hp Ghoul in one turn, and even then it's not guaranteed. Which is pretty much what you aimed for, I assume. Also, they do take a good amount more damage than my melee party. But I always aim and position to have the Summons get hit, and not my heroes.
As almost all damage gets soaked by the Summons, I'm reasonably certain that e.g. a group of Paladin, Dwarf (ok, the stuntie is a great tank, but that's his role), Ranger, Shaman would have way more problems.
Normal flow of combat for "Team Summoner" means 2-3 turns at least to clean a room with 4-6 Ghouls/Skeletons of dungeon level 5.

While "Team Overkill" could put one down per turn and hero, with the possible exception of the weakest (=lowest level) of the bunch. Usually it went "4 Heroes, 4 kills" per turn for them.

Conclusion/Summary:
Unless other people report back it's too easy with a "normal" - i.e. not optimised to the brim - party, I wouldn't increase enemy HP.

Inside info? Hhmm...
And looking forward to your new idea and the new quests, of course

 

Also, I noticed some deficits in the enemy AI.
For one, it rarely tries to focus down one hero, but spreads the love around, so to speak.
Second, it lacks in group tactics. The most glaringly obvious example: Mage with Curse (reduces Hero defense) in the group. Logical approach is to fire the Curse off first, then try to bring one Hero down. Instead, the Mage almost always goes last, wasting the Curse completely.

 

Ranger Plus / Minus

The Ranger's "Rain of Arrows" is individually weak, but it's broad area of effect makes it a very economical attack... you can do 25-30 points of damage in a single round with it, collectively. I used it to soften up enemies for high individual attack value characters or to finish off multiple characters that were close to being knocked out. Sometimes, in combination with the Mage's AOE attacks, I could knock out / down a whole bunch of "trash" in one turn and let my melee chars just wail on the big boss.

Contrawise, at various points, the Ranger's bow was basically useless, except for the very occasional "crit". That was frustrating.

As stated previously, DEX had the unexpected effect of causing enemies to swing and miss a huge percentage of the time. In combination with a potion or two, or a timely heal from the Mage, I found the Ranger to be less vulnerable than my heavily armored high HP dwarf. If they can't hit you, they can't damage you.

 

@Marco: Ok, on Boss HP I agree, those are on the very low end a bit too often. There was this one Healer/Mage boss with less than 20hp...
Berserker with +Attack book and extra action drums is my favorite for taking down bosses. Depends on luck with what items you find, but at least one of each is pretty par for the course for longer dungeons.
I'll try to make a bit more detailed notes, especially how long I need to kill bosses.

By the way: Hoarding items for big threats / bosses is a bog standard tactic, I expect every halfway decent player to do that.

Smarter AI: Agree, this could be a problem for less experienced players. If you want to improve it, how about adding it to the new hardcore mode only?

@tv: I phased the Ranger out early on, so I cannot comment on the Arrowrain skill. I use the Mage's Plague AoE just like you, excellent against groups. I can imagine that Ranger & Mage AoE together can clean a room in one round. Add the Berserker's damage spillover and the Dwarf's "hit all around me" skill, and we have a group that absolutely excels at dealing mass group damage. Needs a lot of Mana on the downside, so it should even out and not be too overpowered.
Interesting approach nonetheless; might give that a shot when skill respec is available.

 

Repaired items;
So far it seems to me that every repairable item you find with the same name will end up with the exact same bonus once repaired.
Is this correct?
It is important to know as the gold amount for selling the item, once you factor in the repair cost, is a lot less than if you had sold the item without repairing.

Also what is the base chance of finding something when searching without any buffs?
Even with the upgrade find chance of plus 20% and a character with an item of plus 15% to find chance, I can still find nothing in more than half of the rooms during a mission.

One more thing.
I have only progressed about a third of the way through the game as I am trying to level all my characters up together and also have both a normal and hardcore game in progress.
What's concerning me is the lack of ranged enemies.
So far every enemy apart from the wizards uses only a melee attack.
Does this change?
Because there has been no groups with ranged attackers I have found there is little need for any tactical thinking. Basically I enter each room using the choke points for my tanks and my range characters behind.

 

I'm already in vacation mode, so most likely I'll be rather quiet for the next 1-2 weeks.
Just wanted to post a summary for the last dungeon I played, "Ancient Kings once dwelled here" - Wymoor Castle, sidequest, 1 stage, level 9. Played with Team Overkill.
Really easy, nothing was challenging, just standard "wade in and mop up". Boss room I cleared in 2 rounds, needed 3 hits on the boss.
Got a "Soul of Frost" Heavy Armor as only remarkable loot. Costs 20k to repair and isn't max level armor, so I postponed repairing. Looks like I might need it in a dungeon or two, though.

And Stubbie, so far I didn't encounter anything ranged either. The Mages don't count, they are just speedbumps for my melee meatgrinder