iPad App Store average scores

Discussion in 'iPhone and iPad Games' started by Paul@Tag, Nov 24, 2008.

  1. Paul@Tag

    Paul@Tag Well-Known Member

    Oct 4, 2008
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    Scotland, UK
    Got a strange one here...

    All Stars Darts, three reviews all at 5 stars, average score 3 stars??!!!?

    Now I know that if a review is given often the average score is updated before the review text goes live but this has been the case for over 24 hours.

    Any ideas?

    Yours puzzled...
     
  2. Carlos-Sz

    Carlos-Sz Well-Known Member

    Nov 5, 2008
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    Maybe the new 2.2 iPhone uninstall rating feature taking action?
     
  3. aghartastudio

    aghartastudio Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2008
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    Game designer/ director
    Lyon, France
    mm maybe the Stars are using all the differents appstore reviews?
     
  4. Paul@Tag

    Paul@Tag Well-Known Member

    Oct 4, 2008
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    Scotland, UK
    Yeah thats what I thought at first... but checking the UK app store we are showing a 5 star average rating which is right.

    It would be strange that the UK app store would be treated differently whilst the US and French stores were averaged!
     
  5. nattylux

    nattylux Well-Known Member

    Sep 17, 2008
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    Washington, DC
    Check out the discussion here:

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=604812

    Basically, this is a result of the new rate-on-delete feature. When a user deletes an app, it now prompts them for a rating - star only, no comment. These star ratings to not get *shown* in the store, but they *are* used for calculating the average. Watch for everyone's average rating to drop quite a bit.

    Personally, the feature seems completely bizarre to me. The person can't have liked an app that much if they're deleting it, so you'll get way more negative reviews that way than positive.
     
  6. Oliver

    Oliver Well-Known Member

    I think Apple thinks that you only go into the itunes review process when you really like or hate an app, i.e., when you are really involved. But most people aren't that involved. So they added this feature to get more information of what people like and what not. But like most things in the AppStore (and that's typical for Apple in the last three years) they implemented this great idea only half-way. Since you are only asked to rate when you delete something, you only get negative or neutral comments, because the good stuff never gets deleted. They did not implement a feature which asks you a week after the buy how you like this app.

    They once again broke the AppStore with this "feature".

    And I noticed that unlike with the reviews these rating are added to the calculation immediately.
     
  7. eeenmachine

    eeenmachine Well-Known Member

    Oct 24, 2008
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    Independent Game Developer
    San Diego, CA
    I think it should work out great for devs as long as more people love your app than hate it. Hopefully it will sink the crap that makes it on the top lists but many people delete after 1 run.
     
  8. Oliver

    Oliver Well-Known Member

    But we now have three different processes:

    One easy to rate apps when deleting an app, which obviously increases the number of low-star-ratings. This process is brought to you when you delete the app and you only have to select the stars.

    Then we have the mini-reviews on the iPhone in the AppStore, where you have to find the app, show the reviews and then click on the write-button. You have to offer the rating AND and title. This is obviously harder to find and will therefore be used less than the delete-and-rate-functionality.

    And then of course there's the iTunes variant: Much like the iPhone variant, but you have to write a review.

    Both variants which involve text are of course not linked with "Rate this app" but with "Write a review", which from the wording has a totally different meaning. I'm never "forced" to rate good apps, which just stay on my iPhone. I have to go into the AppStore by myself and rate and review it. Push vs. Pull ;).


    Maybe we'll see a change in the way the top lists are sorted. Currently it looks at the sold units. It should use the rating as well.
     
  9. eeenmachine

    eeenmachine Well-Known Member

    Oct 24, 2008
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    Independent Game Developer
    San Diego, CA
    I agree that rating should be including in the ranking calculations. While I agree that the new rating popup encourages low-star reviews I think it is appropriate. If an app is useful and entertaining enough to truly be a 4-5 star app, why would it be deleted from a good chunk of users' phones in the first place?
     
  10. Warhorse Games

    Warhorse Games Well-Known Member

    Oct 28, 2008
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    Software Engineer
    Ladera Ranch, CA
    I don't like it at all. It encourages low star reviews, and since there are no comments the feedback is pretty useless.

    Maybe they should show popup after a you open the app a certain number of times, it would make it a little more balanced.
     
  11. eeenmachine

    eeenmachine Well-Known Member

    Oct 24, 2008
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    Independent Game Developer
    San Diego, CA
    Well I think Apple's goal was to make the apps that stay on users' phones stand out.
     
  12. ChaoticBox

    ChaoticBox Well-Known Member

    Oct 8, 2008
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    Developer
    Toronto Canada
    Reviews are increasingly meaningless...

    With prices so low and the only exposure coming from the top lists, some companies have figured that the best bet for their marketing dollars is to pay people to buy their apps :rolleyes:

    App Store makes me sad :(
     
  13. mstream2008

    mstream2008 Well-Known Member

    The most discouraging are some comments from your link, for example, the following person is absolutely sure that everyone uses fake reviews :mad:
    It seems that some people are so accustomed to dishonest, fake reviews that they cannot imagine there exist honest developers.
    It is very sad that it is honest developers who suffer most.
     
  14. Paul@Tag

    Paul@Tag Well-Known Member

    Oct 4, 2008
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    Scotland, UK
    Well I did think that this was going on but until now there has been no real evidence. While I can accept the reasons why developers are paying for reviews it is totally unethical and really quite objectionable.

    I can honestly say that Tag will never pay anyone to leave a positive review for one of our games on the App Store. If we don't make good games then we don't deserve to be in business. Period. Looking at the success of Freeverse on the iPhone I'm glad that those guys are doing so well - they are making some good games well tailored to the market so there is hope!

    I'm sure developers that abuse the system will get whats coming to them once things settle down... ;-)
     
  15. Which is a very good idea, however... they are only doing half of the equation. For example, suppose an app A has 50,000 downloads and of that 100 people delete the app and leave a 1 star review (which is almost a given.. they are deleting the app). Suppose app B has 2,000 downloads and of that 100 people delete the app and leave a 1 star review. Both apps will be affected the *same* amount by the 100 negative reviews. Suppose again that both app A and app B have a 5% rate of users deleting the app and leaving a 1 start review. App A will actually suffer *more* because it is (oddly enough) more popular.

    The fix is to either bump up the rating for every app downloaded that doesn't get deleted (assume 4 stars??) or to just revert back to what they were doing before.

    Honestly, the AppStore is so broken it almost doesn't matter anymore.
    It all really, really makes you wonder who Apple has in charge. It really has the feel of a half-dozen recent graduates making the stuff up at the local pub after work.
     
  16. eeenmachine

    eeenmachine Well-Known Member

    Oct 24, 2008
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    Independent Game Developer
    San Diego, CA
    Wouldn't the app with 50,000 downloads get more positive reviews than the one with 2,000 downloads?
     
  17. Mahaa93

    Mahaa93 Well-Known Member

    This delete/rating process actually works: When people don't like an app, they usually end up deleting it from their iphones. These are often low quality apps, which deserve low ratings- therefore when deleting the app, the owner will input a low rating. Why should it receive a high rating if it is being deleted from their device? When more and more people delete the same app from their device, it most likely means it is a very low quality app, which therefore will receive a low rating. Now of course this means that we will be seeing a lot more poorly rated apps, but it still justifies the nature of the appstore, where bad apps will be lost and good ones will remain in the top 100.
     
  18. ChaoticBox

    ChaoticBox Well-Known Member

    Oct 8, 2008
    877
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    Toronto Canada
    In the US store, right now, there are 3 apps with a less than 3-star rating in the top 10 (and it's been that way since before this change).

    User ratings haven't seemed to matter much this far, so I can't see how this change is gonna make much difference. Apple sure has pissed off some developers though, but that might be a good thing. Personally I've got App Store numbness - if you can't control it, go with the flow...
     
  19. eeenmachine

    eeenmachine Well-Known Member

    Oct 24, 2008
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    Independent Game Developer
    San Diego, CA
    You are a better man than I sir, I was fully expecting Pinch n Pop to shoot into the top 25 and stay there awhile.
     
  20. ChaoticBox

    ChaoticBox Well-Known Member

    Oct 8, 2008
    877
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    18
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    Developer
    Toronto Canada
    It seems other devs like it more than regular users :confused:. I think the price held it back somewhat, and although it's definitely past its peak it quickly broke even and surpassed my (modest) targets for October and November. A weak Canadian dollar and the fact that I don't have to pay greedy artists or sound designers helps too ;)

    Getting back to the topic of reviews - One thing I wish Apple would do is make it clear that user reviews are strictly for the sake of other users, and not for bug reporting or feature requests. I've received absolutely no email regarding Pinch 'n Pop but in many cases it would've been helpful to follow up with reviewers.
     

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