Absolutely Just take Doodle Jump for example, and they never even desperate to make it free ever IF people like it they spread word of er mouth and the reviews come in and the people like Doodle Jump go for long holidays to Japan to see the Jap girls wink wink
I still think that publishers have the power and connection to promote their games faster. Take the case of Chillingo's new game Wackyland Boss, the game got featured in less than one week after released. How is that possible it was an indie game?
I see the success of a game as a kind of lottery. Without a publisher the chance of a not-so-great-but-good-game may be about 1:5000 (I think...based on the bunch of games released every day and these games that stand out) to make the big bucks. With a publisher like Chillingo the chance is something like 1:3! (I looked at Chillingos portfolio and counted the games that are well placed in the charts and the games which did not) Of course a publisher is no guarantee for a success. A bad game will be a bad game even with a well known brand. So if you doing app development for a living there is only one way to go to keep the risk as low as possible...if you doing this as a hobby then you may try by yourself. But even with a great game you need a lot of luck to get noticed without a well known name.
Yo, I see your Agents! is on the way to Chillingo for publishing. However, I'm not pretty sure about all Chillingo's game because they're definitely not in the same level of quality. Also, Chillingo confuses people a lot with their pricing plan since people will easy see that the content of all their 0.99 games are not the same (some like Angry Bird & Cut the Rope has ton of levels, some has only few things to play & learn). I remembered some story like Alien's Cab, this is not a bad game at all but it's also not that great (sorry, this is only my opinion, I don't want to blame the developer here), and after a Chillingo's action, I'm not sure if this game gets a success yet since I almost never hear of it just one more time. Same thing with Robin Hood: The Archer of the Woods (from Muloop), may be he can share something after working with Chillingo but I'm really curious to know the result of those 2 games and how about their feedbacks after a cooperation with Chillingo. In my opinion, Chillingo biz model is something like they give out 10 but only need to hit 1 and that's enough, then all the marketing & advertising efforts are focusing only for that success story to make it even bigger. Then what about the other game of Chillingo? I don't want to blame Chillingo, don't get me wrong. Just want to understand a bit more clear as I'm also finding a good publisher for my coming game as well, right now I have no clue of what a good publisher is. Anyway, this thread is really great!
You can easily check the success of a game by looking into it's ranking history. I'm using appannie for this purpose. If you wanne see a game without success lets take my first game - Age of Tribes - : http://www.appannie.com/age-of-tribes/ranking/history/#start_date=2010-02-03&end_date=2010-11-03 So if a game stays in the top 100 after the initial rush, let's say after 2 weeks, I would call it a success. You wont find the games you mentioned there...so yes, a publisher is no guarantee for a lot of money. At first you need a great game. And then still a lot of luck.
A good game will speak volumes and if it is unique then publicity will follow it and promotion will happen. Our game Jet Car Stunts fits this bill perfectly. Has the game been a success without a publisher? I would say yes because monies wise it has gone beyond what we predicted from the beginning. It didn't happen overnight, we had to put a lot of effort into the updates adding major features to enhance the game. I guess the game can be classed as a medium hit. I certainly don't have to work for any company again barring True Axis, of course. All I can say is before you consider a publisher think carefully about the game you plan to make, think about the skill sets you have to make this game, and then ask yourself, can everyman and his dog make this game. If the answer is that only a few people on the planet can make this game, then you have something unique. Then if the game is very fun to play then I would say publish yourself. A game like Cut the Rope would sell no matter what and I bet the developers are kicking themselves that they did not publish it. Anyway, that's my cents worth...
Reckless Racing diving to 0.99 USD on iPhone within three weeks of launch despite having all the hype and EA as a publisher is worth noting for this discussion. If EA's brand value doesn't help your premium content avoid bottom-feeder pricing, do they really add tangible value?
I'll add a bit more. With Jet Car Stunts a lot of people think that the game did not do to well - a game that was hyped, got good reviews and publicity but did not do well in the charts. If you look at the Rank history on App Annie: http://www.appannie.com/jet-car-stunts/ranking/#view=best-ranks It did pretty ok after we started doing the updates. I'm pointing this out because it is possible to self publish on the App Store and compete with the big publishers. The advantage we (True Axis) have over the publishers is that there is only two of us to be payed and not 100s of people. I really don't see the need for using a publisher on the App Store - but as I pointed out in the last post - the game has to be something special to take the gamble.
What EA are doing is trying to own the App Store by doing this - they want to fill as many chart positions as possible. The price drop of Reckless Racing is a marketing ploy by them to stop people from buying other peoples games. When a lot of developers leave the App Store for good, EA consider that a win. And when EA can hold most top chart positions they will call that a win. They are basically trying to drive out the indie developers. Why you ask? Because when that day happens they will hike the prices up. Well, I guess that's their plan... but the App Store cannot be owned because a large part of a games success has the word random in. What I like about the App Store is that experiment games can happen. The games that for years the big publishers were afraid to commit to. Think about the last 10 years of console games, where everyone is a sequel or a clone - just boring boring games. I remember when the micro computer boom started happening and every game that was released was very different from the last. The App Store for me is like what Punk Rock did to the music business - a breath of fresh air where new ideas can enter the market place. Now EA I don't think understands this because from what I can see most of their games on the App Store follow the pattern of what has been happening in the console markets from the last 10 years. I think what gets them is a couple of kids in their bedrooms can make a very cool game and publish it themselves and have a massive hit on their hands. And with all their cheap publicity gimmicks they can not do anything about it. Don't get me wrong - I like some games that EA have done. I'm just pointing out some of their business tactics with their sales and why they are doing it.
Very interesting thread! I am from 99Games and we had several similar questions when we were building 'The Jim and Frank Mysteries-The Blood River Files'. We had self-published several games prior to that but none that had the depth and content that we were building into J&F. Around GDC timeframe, we concluded that we wouldn't be able to do justice to the potential of the game on our own and started talking to several publishers before zeroing in on Chillingo. We had all the same questions that are being asked on these forums..
I have a question for those of you who did go with Chillingo... Did you get a detailed document explaining what sort of PR and Marketing Chillingo was going to do for you? Did it include how much money and time they were going to invest in marketing and pitching the game?
Of course you can. At the end of the day, everything can be negotiated. If a publisher don't want to amend their contract because it is their 'standard' contract, then you are probably better not using them: they obviously think you are a dummy. JC
I see alot of comments about are publishers good or bad and I think everyone is being too complicated here. Sometimes I go on chillingo website myself just to check out thier games. If there is a lite , I immediately download it. Same thing for gameloft and so forth. Publishers are good for a start so you can make some money. Someone said cut the rope would have made it exactly the same without them. This is false , the publisher does help promote the game. The problem here is people are looking for a million dollar promise and that is immpossible to predict. No one can guarentee you make a million , but if you look a publishers games, they make money whether its 1 million or only $50,000 in a year. Not every game can catch on obviously. There seen to be a little , little hate toward publishers here and its not nessesary. All the publisher can do is give you a much better chance. While not all chillingo's games make it to the top , I seen alot of thier games in the top 50,top100,and 200. You cant blame them if you game blows up because unless your gameloft , its all luck. Its best to look at yourself to see what you have done wrong ,not another company. In the end its better you go at it on your own, that way people will reconize your brand.
How do you know Chillingo will spend the same amount of marketing money and PR time on your game as they did on Angry Birds or Cut the Rope?
For what it's worth, I don't think Chillingo has spent much at all marketing Angry Birds. I was looking in to it a while ago lining up emails we got from them along with AppAnnie rankings. Our initial emails about Angry Birds were as part of their Click Gamer brand which they basically explained as "We're starting a second brand to shovel second-rate games on to that we wouldn't normally publish with Chillingo." It wasn't until Angry Birds started getting popular through updates that they began promoting it.
This is exactly my worry. If I ever sign up with a publisher, I want to know exactly what I am getting for their profit %. I am not going to give up a bunch of money to have a publisher "wait and see" how the game is doing before they decide to heavily promote it. If I am spending serious money (and don't forget, your development time IS serious money) then I want to know they are going to back up their part with something substantial. Be it ads they purchased or time a PR person spends pitching the game.
Hi. Can you list down the other publishers that you went after? Would help us to also approach them. Cheers!
