Discussion in 'iPhone and iPad Games' started by BrettArchibald, Jan 29, 2009.

1. ### BrettArchibald Well-Known Member

Jul 17, 2008
1,400
0
36
Self-employed interactive designer.
Formerly Zimbabwe - now England.
#1
I downloaded the game Jabeh awhile ago, and I started off on the Easy levels to begin with, just to get into it and to get a feeling for the game.

Having felt I'd suitably mastered the easy levels, I thought I'd switch the difficulty settings to "Any", which would now present me with a random choice of Easy, Medium or Hard each time I played a new game.

Ummm, OK, so maybe I'm not ready just yet... or maybe I just need something explained to me...

Now first of all, bear in mind, that I *DO* completely understand the concept of the game. I know what the arrows mean, column/row numbers, etc.
And I know the tips and tricks of first eliminating empty squares by crossing out the zero rows/columns and also by eliminating squares behind a horizontal or vertical arrow in a row or column with a 1 in it, etc. and then filling in the squares after that where there's only one possible position for the stone, etc.
And I've watched the developer's own tutorial video here:
So I know all about that and how the game is played and what the rules are, etc.

Using all that logic, I have successfully cleared every single Easy board that I have played.
The problem comes though when I attempt to play a Medium or a Difficult board.
In the developer's own words (in an email to me), the puzzles in Jabeh "can all be solved using only logic", and that there is no guesswork involved.
I'm guessing another technique is called for, because the methods that work for the easy puzzles are (obviously) not enough to solve the harder puzzles.

OK, so with that in mind, can anyone tell me what the next step in either one of the two puzzles below is meant to be... easy or hard, take your pick...
To expand on that though, not only what the step is, but rather more importantly, what *logic* is involved in determining what that step is?
I really don't want to use the Hint button, and besides which, the Hint button doesn't actually give you a hint as such (if we're going by the correct definition of the word), it just places a stone on the board for you in the correct place, without telling you why that's the correct place  so using the hint button won't actually help me solve future puzzles, if you know what I mean...

2. ### Carlos-Sz Well-Known Member

Nov 5, 2008
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#2
About the first: in the 3rd column there are 2 diagonal arrows... Using some logic you can discard more squares from the game...

I think you can use the same approach in the second (look at the 5th row: 2 diagonal arrows...).

3. ### Moog Active Member

Jan 4, 2009
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0
#3
I too love this game and had the same problem moving up to Medium and Hard. I got in touch with the developer and he kindly made another video of a Medium puzzle being solved.

http://jabeh.cachefly.net/MediumPuzzles.mov

Hope this helps

4. ### BrettArchibald Well-Known Member

Jul 17, 2008
1,400
0
36
Self-employed interactive designer.
Formerly Zimbabwe - now England.
#4
I see them, but each of those arrows is pointing to *two* possible squares. It's not apparent (at least not to me) which of the two possible squares contains the stone.
So what's the logic that determines which of these squares does contain the stone and which does not?

As an aside, what would be nice in this game would be to have a third marker, that being a question-mark or something, so you can mark out *possible* squares.
I'm thinking along the lines of how you get a flag in MineSweeper or the mini corner pencil marks you can make in Sudoku...

5. ### BrettArchibald Well-Known Member

Jul 17, 2008
1,400
0
36
Self-employed interactive designer.
Formerly Zimbabwe - now England.
#5
Actually, you know what, I think I solved it  or I got the next step at least...

But I only "saw" the solution when I opened the screenshot up in Photoshop and started marking out potential squares with my own "possibility flag" symbol.
So yeah, personally speaking, I'd like to see a third "potential" marker added to the game.
I'll email the developer and see what he thinks of the idea...

6. ### BrettArchibald Well-Known Member

Jul 17, 2008
1,400
0
36
Self-employed interactive designer.
Formerly Zimbabwe - now England.
#6
Last edited: Jan 29, 2009
Aah great, thanks. I'll take a look at that now...

Update: I just watched the video, and it seems to make perfect sense when you're sitting back watching someone else do it — now I just have to see if I can do it myself later today.

7. ### NotYou Well-Known Member

Sep 22, 2008
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#7
The medium puzzles usually require a guess and the hard usually require two or three. They can still be solved with logic, though. Sometimes you have to rule out a piece by trying it and seeing if it works.

You can do it without guessing, if you can think that far ahead. If you can visualize the next few moves after you would have made that guess, you can usually see if it would have worked or not. That's why they're considered hard. They take a lot of thought (or patience, depending which route you take).

In the easy levels, everything is pretty much spelled out for you.

8. ### BrettArchibald Well-Known Member

Jul 17, 2008
1,400
0
36
Self-employed interactive designer.
Formerly Zimbabwe - now England.
#8
I would dispute that, at least if you're playing the game "properly". The whole point of this game is that all the puzzles can be solved with logic only and *NO* guesswork.

In the words of the Jabeh-developer himself, when I asked him about the other similar game to this available on the App-Store:

9. ### NotYou Well-Known Member

Sep 22, 2008
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1
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#9
In the second part of my post I explain that you can solve them without guessing. If you can't figure the puzzles out using logic, you can make one or two trial moves. If you can think ahead a few moves, you don't need to guess.

10. ### BrettArchibald Well-Known Member

Jul 17, 2008
1,400
0
36
Self-employed interactive designer.
Formerly Zimbabwe - now England.
#10
Sure, I get what you're saying, which is why I put the word "properly" in quotation marks there...
I wanted to learn the techniques for playing this game *without* using any guesswork.
I had actually solved one or two medium puzzles by guessing before I started this thread, but it just didn't feel very satisfactory somehow...

11. ### GreenLightJerky Well-Known Member

Oct 27, 2008
505
0
0
Senior support engineer, jerky guru
California
#11
Last edited: Jan 29, 2009
I totally agree with you.
It felt like I was just randomly guessing and finally solved each puzzle.
I watched the second video and I really understand how to look at the board now.

12. ### BrettArchibald Well-Known Member

Jul 17, 2008
1,400
0
36
Self-employed interactive designer.
Formerly Zimbabwe - now England.
#12
And I, in turn, totally agree with you... That second video really helped me out a lot! In theory at least  I still have to put those theories to practice...

13. ### ArashPayan Member

Jan 15, 2009
6
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Software Developer
#13
Hi all,
I just tuned into this conversation. It seems you guys have figured it out, but I just want to mention that the video link that Moog posted will probably expire tomorrow, because I just switched hosting services. I've posted it on youtube and on my new server instead:

http://jabeh.org/video/MediumPuzzles.mov

Once I have some more time, I'm gonna work on integrating the various videos into jabeh.org.

Best,
Arash

P.S. I'm running a twitter contest to give away a few free copies of Jabeh. Check it out at http://jabeh.org/contest/

14. ### sam the lion Well-Known Member

Jan 12, 2009
1,455
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0
Italy
#14
I have downloaded the lite version after reading this thread. I like the game, it's kind of similar to Picross for Nintendo DS, which requires a similar "advance" in the involved logic when you switch to harder puzzles.

15. ### coconutbowling Well-Known Member

Dec 8, 2008
3,208
7
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Student
Pennsylvania
#15
Thanks. I know how to do this now.

16. ### GreenLightJerky Well-Known Member

Oct 27, 2008
505
0
0
Senior support engineer, jerky guru
California
#16
The videos really help.I can beat the easy levels in under 2 mins regularly, 1:30 is my fastest.
I am gonna try some medium levels soon.
Can you make any more videos with some "HARD" tips?

17. ### ArashPayan Member

Jan 15, 2009
6
0
0
Software Developer
#17
@GreenLightJerky

I'll see if I can make a meaningful hard video. I tried once, but I didn't like the result.

Don't forget to enter the Jabeh Twitter contest (http://jabeh.org/contest) to win a free copy of the game!

18. ### GreenLightJerky Well-Known Member

Oct 27, 2008
505
0
0
Senior support engineer, jerky guru
California
#18
I dont really need a video.
written tips or screen shots of what to look for would suffice.

19. ### Tack Member

Jan 11, 2009
12
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0
#19
Last edited: Feb 1, 2009
I don't know if you still need help with this, but I figured I'd show how to solve it using logic for you or anyone else needing help.

You have to look for "only possible" solutions. By this, I mean looking for multiple places where a marker can be put, and more importantly, where a marker cannot be put. Basically, it is a more advanced form of marking all of the boxes behind an arrow on a row or column marked as 1.

I've updated your picture to show you what I mean. Notice how there are four arrows pointing to two rows that each require two markers. Using process of elimination, we know that these four markers cannot be in the spaces I've highlighted simply because there is room for only four markers and there are four arrows pointing to the only places where they can go.

Now look at the middle two columns with the 3s. Now there are only 3 places in each of these that those 3 markers can go. Add those and the rest should fall in place.

Hope this helped.

-Tack

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20. ### BrettArchibald Well-Known Member

Jul 17, 2008
1,400
0
36
Self-employed interactive designer.
Formerly Zimbabwe - now England.
#20
Thanks for the updated screenshot there. Much appreciated.
As usual, it makes sense in theory, but now I just have to put that theory into practice when I next play...