Advertising and TouchArcade

Discussion in 'Site Feedback and News' started by arn, Jun 12, 2009.

  1. arn

    arn Administrator
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    Apr 19, 2008
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    So, this seems to come up on a semi-regular basis, so here's a thread to discuss this further.

    This site accepts advertising. We are the largest iPhone gaming site around and a lot of the big title games have advertising now and in the future. Ngmoco, Chillingo, Freeverse, for example, are amongst regular advertisers.

    I am confident that our coverage is not influenced by our advertising, and our freelancer's compensation is uninfluenced by any advertising deals. I understand there may always be concerns about ad-influenced opinions in any review-industry, and whatever I say, I won't be able to convince those that are most suspicious.

    The site exists based on the trust of the readership and this site, and it's not something we are willing to throw away for a single week of ads. We will continue to accept advertising in the future, and by no accident, many of the high profile games will have very prominent advertising.

    Arnold Kim
    TouchArcade.com editor
     
  2. yacoub

    yacoub Well-Known Member

    Apr 3, 2009
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    #2 yacoub, Jun 12, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2009
    ....
     
  3. starjimstar

    starjimstar Well-Known Member

    Sep 28, 2008
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    Editorial is not the correct word.



    I have never considered the advertising a conflict of interest because Touch Arcade doesn't demonstrate journalistic integrity. You can't, however, refer to your reviews as 'editorials.'

    The American National Standards Institute (ANSI) specifies the following guidelines for an editorial:

    I have taken the liberty of highlighting the relevant bullets.
     
  4. yacoub

    yacoub Well-Known Member

    Apr 3, 2009
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    Dear Editor:

    It's kind of hard to take your ethics seriously when you've:

    • Changed the comments for the "review" to Moderator Approval style
    • Deleted comments discussing the review (which is what the Comments beneath a review are for) because you didn't agree with what they said or questioned about the review
    • Declared an on-the-spot rule that the comments are now only allowed to discuss the game in question, not the review itself
    • Try to quarantine all discussion to this thread buried in the Site Suggestions area of the forum

    You are taking actions that punish the readership when the blame lies squarely at the feet of whatever forces at TA contributed to this review being a lousy example of an honest review and a great example of advertising (paid or otherwise).

    From a TA marketing and brand reputation perspective, so far your handling of this issue is poor.
     
  5. HJJ

    HJJ Well-Known Member

    Dec 2, 2008
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    Oh, man. Where to begin?

    Part of being an informed consumer is seeking information from a variety of points across a medium. Reviews aren't echo chambers designed to validate our own opinions. So you bought a game based on a single review and ended up not liking it? Boohoo. There are two review sites that I visit on a regular basis (among others). One of them I disagree with about 50% of the time. Do I leave childish comments accusing the reviewer of unprofessional favoritism or vendettas? No. I act like an adult and realize that there's such a thing called perspective, which is my reward for regularly seeking a variety of sources. If you're basing your buying decisions on a single perspective then you're either a fool or a liar that only wishes to read homogeneous opinions.

    As for the specific accusations? Every week, I get an Entertainment Weekly in the mail. I can't even count the number of times I've received an issue with a centerfold cover story on an upcoming movie only to flip to the back and see it get trashed in the review section. I've seen full page ads for TV shows that get mediocre reviews. I've also seen the feature story end up with a great review. It's the way this medium works. It's the way it's always worked. If you haven't realized this yet, maybe leaving this site, putting down the iPod touch and picking up a newspaper or book would be a good idea. Your introduction into the real world has to start somewhere.
     
  6. Dark NRG

    Dark NRG Well-Known Member

    Jun 10, 2009
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    EVERYONE above who rebuked the editor's message is so well and intelligently stated that I really can't add to it other than I agree and hope that this fine and useful site that has found a heyday in a new world of mobile computing and found their niche will keep their integrity intact and continue a great job. I posted about one user in a forum the other day offering a dev a 5 star review in exchange for a promo code, and called him on it. It was his "sig" that he practices that, and has removed his "sig" in yesterday. Your integrity is everything, else I'll take my eyeballs somewhere else. Thank you for the freedom to voice my criticism

    Dark NRG
     
  7. arn

    arn Administrator
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    Apr 19, 2008
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    @starjimstar - took my use of the word "editorial" too literally.

    @yacoub: I doubt there is much I can do to convince you otherwise. You have been particularly negative in all your comments across all our articles about developers, their games and this site. If you don't trust the site, then you should not read it. The site exists, of course, based on the trust of the coverage and readers, and we work hard on that. While we welcome feedback and understand the issues surrounding perceived impropriety, we won't tolerate your blanket accusations simply because you have a deep seated anger towards this site and developers who charge more than $0.99.

    Arnold Kim
     
  8. starjimstar

    starjimstar Well-Known Member

    Sep 28, 2008
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    Some would call me anal. :D
     
  9. Joker13z

    Joker13z Well-Known Member

    Apr 16, 2009
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    You really could not have said it any better then me. That list of comments for the review just kind of sickened me. I've read similar topics about things like this and pricing of apps and sales etc. Everyone one of them there becomes this multi post war because people say something without really sitting down and thinking about it before they say it. Then they get mad because other people are trying to defend this site and/or devs and publishing companies. And it goes on and on. It's got to the point where I can't even read them anymore and after this I'm pretty sure I'll just ignore them.

    Simply put its like this. The reviewer has his right to rate a game HOWEVER he feels like. If a reviewer loves the game so much that he looks past and sometimes even doesn't see the flaws in a game then so be it. You also have to remember that not everybody sees the same flaws in a game. Hell I can't even count how many games I've played that I loved and when I finished them I didn't even notice the flaws until I read someone's review about them. This review is someone's opinion on the game. He really liked it. PERIOD. If you don't like it then fine. Do like I do and read other people's reviews for the game and compare.

    For the people getting all huffy at TA and Arn for this review, give them a break. If you don't like it fine, go somewhere else. Or simply don't trust front page reviews anymore and only go to the forums. Hell, do whatever you want. Just don't act immature and explode at the site, Arn, and the reviewer simply because of a reviewer's opinion about a game which he loved. It's his opinion and he can write whatever the hell kind of review he wants. Actually still just read "HJJ"s post. Like I said, he said it the best. ;)
     
  10. Kris Jones

    Kris Jones Well-Known Member

    Mar 21, 2009
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    A major point being missed is that is it nearly impossible for the reviews to be absent of bias from the reviewer because that specific reviewer has certain interests.

    For example, if they love TD games and they believe that Star Defence is one of the best on the market, then it will be represented as such in the review.

    I have been on TouchArcade for months and the reviews, in my opinion, are quality and competent reviews that I believe are quite useful.

    Do I always agree with the reviews? Of course not, but I am entitled to my opinions and have different interests in games.

    I have seen advertisement for games that I have never seen a review for and I have had my game review here but have not yet paid for advertisement.
     
  11. zachawry

    zachawry Well-Known Member

    Oct 15, 2008
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    Hmm...

    I think all that has happened here is that TA has fallen into a trap, one that is probably hard to avoid. On the one hand, they are clearly friendly with developers. On the other hand, they like to portray their reviews as at least mostly impartial. It is difficult to achieve both, especially when receiving advertising money from people whose products you review.

    In this case, the game is clearly considered sub-standard by the majority of users, yet it received a glowing review by the site whose operators are friendly with its developers and receive money from them.

    I don't exactly think TA is acting in bad faith, but ask yourself this question: is it even conceivable that TA would pan the game as so many of us users have? Of course not.

    I don't expect TA to be as critical as everybody else is, but to not even mention the many, many weak points of the game is to open yourself up to criticism of being bought, especially when they are so glaring.
     
  12. Kris Jones

    Kris Jones Well-Known Member

    Mar 21, 2009
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    Last time I checked, 30 seconds ago, Star Defense has a 4 1/2 star rating at 207 reviews. I wouldn't say that the majority of users then consider it substandard. If you don't agree with the review, then do not promote the game.
     
  13. DaveMc99

    DaveMc99 Well-Known Member

    Mar 1, 2009
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    +1 No game is for everyone but it is clear that most people like this game.
    Eli also reviewed Real Racing with no link to the forum.
     
  14. zachawry

    zachawry Well-Known Member

    Oct 15, 2008
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    I was referring to the TA community, which is clearly more demanding than the average iTunes store plebe!:eek:

    (And, although I have said mostly negative things about the game, I freely admit I'll play it. I'm a sucker for eye candy and good music.)
     
  15. starjimstar

    starjimstar Well-Known Member

    Sep 28, 2008
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    That point has not been missed, Kris Jones. It was addressed directly in the other thread. And, for the record, it is not nearly impossible to write an objective review: it is totally impossible. As a safeguard, some reviewers will reference examples from the past to justify their position and give credence to the presented opinions. One amusing example is when Hodapp compared Ow My Balls! to Casablanca (tongue in cheek style, of course.)
     
  16. DaveMc99

    DaveMc99 Well-Known Member

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    #16 DaveMc99, Jun 13, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2009
    Make a poll.. I can guarantee "substandard" will not be the majority opinion. A majority might be disappointed that their expectations were not met but that is not the same thing.
    All reviews are 4.5+ so far http://www.apptism.com/apps/star-defense/reviews
     
  17. Kamazar

    Kamazar Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2008
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    I gotta agree. I mean, let's take a look at movies. Not everyone like's the same genre. Some tend to lean towards action, others comedy. You can't be totally dispassionate about something people are suppose to enjoy. Can you truly create an unbiased food review? It only works with something that has cold, hard facts you can analyze. If you do that with apps, all you have is a product description. The solution to your horrendous dilemma is simple, compare reviews and accept consumer risk. It's all you can really do. Caveat emptor.

    Edit: Looks like someone else addressed this.
     
  18. zachawry

    zachawry Well-Known Member

    Oct 15, 2008
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    Interestingly enough...

    On the Japanese iTunes store (which is where I am), the game gets only three stars (which is what I would give it), with common criticism being that it offers only great graphics to offset the totally conventional gameplay.
     
  19. DaveMc99

    DaveMc99 Well-Known Member

    Mar 1, 2009
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    Huh? so you would rate this game as being standard and not substandard?
     
  20. Kris Jones

    Kris Jones Well-Known Member

    Mar 21, 2009
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    I think that the point that it does not match the "hype" is what is likely occurring.

    Plus, those who are disappointed are much more likely to open discussion in the thread than those who are satisfied, already gearing the thread towards dissent over the whole game.
     

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