About Armed Heroes Online vs. Torchlight (response from EGLS)

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by Serena zhang, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. florendas

    florendas Well-Known Member

    May 1, 2009
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    +1 and even if its wasn't a game like theirs using the art from Torchlight directly is the part thats not ok.
     
  2. Skillmaster19

    Skillmaster19 Well-Known Member

    Dec 9, 2010
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    I don't work for EGLS... I'm 16 and live in the USA... a TA admin could confirm I log in from a USA IP and registered with a yahoo mail...

    I do admit I play Armed Heroes Online and am on EGLS's side in the argument though...
     
  3. Rocotilos

    Rocotilos Well-Known Member

    Dec 5, 2009
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    ^^^ THIS is exactly what I got from reading the first post as well.

    It is kinda like my 6 yo daughter's excuses for writing on the wall.
    She'd say "because there are no more spaces on the paper".
    (just make anything up and hope for the best)

    lol

    But personally I feel Serena Zhang is insulting the whole forum members' intelligence with that post. :(
     
  4. #104 Connector, Jul 18, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
    This is kind of an interesting situation with so many different countries involved. Seems like companies from Canada, US, and China are involved, and because of that it seems almost impossible to go to court since the internet is now global. In China, software piracy is rampant and tolerated, so what works for them there, wouldn't hold up here.

    So I don't really see anything being done in any courts, seems like Apple itself is the ultimate judge and executioner. But this seems to put Apple in a very bad spot. There are TONS of games that have issues with people using similar graphics or sounds, so would Apple want to have to hear every case of this?

    Reading the first post, it seems very logical and using their pictures, you would think they didn't do anything wrong. Seeing the graphical pictures later, yes, there does seem to be something wrong, but we don't know the whole picture.

    Then there is stuff that is thrown around about sound names, and other evidence that have to be considered. So these kinds of things are issues that are time consuming to figure out, and I could see Apple not really want to be a part of.

    Personally, I do believe that the graphics assests were stolen, but to prove it in a court of law and to provide punishments in terms of royalties or prison time seem to be impossible. So I am curious to see what will happen because this is on an international stage, with Apple as the judge and jury.
     
  5. geoelectric

    geoelectric Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2010
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    Dude, when you have Runic confirming EGLS used exact copies of the meshes and sound files for a significant number of assets, the argument is pretty much done. This isn't a matter of opinion thing where you're going to "win."

    Travis Baldree's response in this has been phenomenal. I'm very happy to have been a fan of Baldree's games since FATE, and look very forward to buying many more in the future.

    EGLS's response has been clumsy and insulting. They must truly think we're stupid enough to buy a complete misdirection. It's not even a matter of assuming naivete or good will; they truly didn't answer the argument and thought nobody would notice.

    I just hope that we still know who EGLS is after they inevitably slink off and change the company name.
     
  6. sabin1981

    sabin1981 Well-Known Member

    Mar 12, 2012
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    You were told how to verify it for yourself. There's plenty of physical proof.. stop being a puppet for EGLS.
     
  7. Skillmaster19

    Skillmaster19 Well-Known Member

    Dec 9, 2010
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    Or maybe he/she was trying to defend against the accusations about stealing assets with that post? Pretty much the entire community is convinced they stole the assets, do they not get a right to prove them wrong?
     
  8. Rocotilos

    Rocotilos Well-Known Member

    Dec 5, 2009
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    Sure they have a right.

    But when you're a thief and you got caught with a sack of jewelleries in your hands, er.. not sure about that right. :D
     
  9. jsrco

    jsrco Well-Known Member
    Patreon Silver

    Oct 15, 2009
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    They don't need to... Armed Heroes has them. Including the spelling errors in the name files that Torchlight had. Then they tried to use the excuse that what they did was ok because Torchlight was so similar to Diablo 2 and Fate.

    Makes me wonder if you are trolling or just not reading what has been stated.
     
  10. Rocotilos

    Rocotilos Well-Known Member

    Dec 5, 2009
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    You must forgive him. He's probably 19 (from his id). And teenagers are rebelious by nature. Been there done that. :D
     
  11. Well, you apparently didn't read my post too well, I said it was in my opinion that the assets were stolen.

    What I meant about the sound names evidence was it was not posted in this thread, so how can we use it as evidence? Anyway, I'm not pro EGLS, but to understand a whole story, you have to read the whole book. Just figuring everything out is hard here.

    How you interpret my last post as being pro EGLS, I got no clue.
     
  12. tbaldree

    tbaldree Well-Known Member

    Dec 16, 2010
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    I provided comparisons and data. In response, they displayed unrelated models in an attempt to refute those claims without actually addressing them, and accused me of stealing ideas from my own game.

    Haven't they been offered a chance and squandered it?

    You seem hung up on small texture differences like the size of a goblin's eyes as proving the assets aren't rips - the eyes are a dot of texture. Increasing or decreasing the size is as simple as touching them with a 5 point brush in photoshop.

    If the totality of all of these assets and the freely viewable sound manifest don't sway you, then I don't really know what to say to that, honestly.
     
  13. Wizard_Mike

    Wizard_Mike Well-Known Member

    Mar 17, 2011
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    They didn't even attempt to prove them wrong, though.

    Runic: "Hey, you stole our files!"

    EGLS: "Nuh uh! Look at these other, different files."

    Anyone with half a brain cell: "Um, can you address the files he's talking about?"
     
  14. Rocotilos

    Rocotilos Well-Known Member

    Dec 5, 2009
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    It is quite a great "marketing" actually.

    Those who want to verify the sound names, must buy the games. Instant profits! Now I wish someone would copy my game's asset. (link in my signature *wink* *wink*).
     
  15. sabin1981

    sabin1981 Well-Known Member

    Mar 12, 2012
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    What are you talking about? The sound name evidence was posted on the first PAGE! How can you first say "there's no physical proof" and then, when called out on it, say "well the evidence wasn't posted in this thread, so how can we use it as evidence?" (which is nuts in and of itself) despite the fact that yes, said evidence is posted on the very first page of the very thread we're talking in. How? What kind of fantastical logical processes are you running?

    I'm... I mean... but....no, I'm sorry, you just broke my brain.
     
  16. Rocotilos

    Rocotilos Well-Known Member

    Dec 5, 2009
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    tbaldtree,

    I'd like to participate in verifying this. as for AH i'd probably can get the cracked version off google.

    edit: scratch that.. just saw your homepage with demo download.
     
  17. I thought the TA community was more responsible then this. I feel like killing my self. @skillmaster19 look kid. (I'm 16 too but it clearly shows your brain has yet to develop). You say they could have replicated the graphics. Ok fine. Let's say they did (hypothetically speaking) the graphics were created by ELGS but the sound files having the exact same names and corespond to each of the same monsters and such is more than enough proof of theft. If you don't understand that then please leave this conversation for the experts. The fact that ELGS has only made ONE post in this thread and has not responded to other claims tells us something. Oh and please remember you are supporting a developer/cheats/thieves that accused Runic for copying ideas FROM THEIR OWN GAMES when making torchlight the proof is in the very first post of this thread. Also this may be a bit immature for me but I'm kinda pissed off right now so I'll ask anyways. Skillmaster19, exactly what is ELGS giving you in compensation for su.cking their d1.cks so hard? And if you really want an Mmo game there is O&C which should last you a while until (hopefully) Travis and his crew make an official port for iOS. Also Travis I have no money at the moment but is there any way to support an awesome dev like you? I don't have torchlight either actually but it's peaked my interest in it. Also I apologize for this wall of Text this was my 2 cents.

    ~Ajay iOS YouTuber
     
  18. tbaldree

    tbaldree Well-Known Member

    Dec 16, 2010
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    I want to say that the freely available torched download has all the assets loose already.

    Otherwise you can browse the pak.zip file to see them.
     
  19. Well, why didn't you say so in your first reply to my post? You posted a quote saying you had to have both games, winzip, and upload the names. And I don't have any of those resources, so there was no way I could check.

    You know I read through like 40 pages on the 2 threads, and I missed the post about the sound name data. So definately, with that, it does look worse. Anyway, the gist of my first post I still stand by, I will edit out the sound names part, but it will still show up on your quotes anyway.

    Anyway, the graphic dumps were clear enough for me to have an opinion on this matter, so seeing the sound name data is even more damning. But I guess I will make it clear to you, I do not support what happened, plain and simple.
     
  20. lockeslylcrit

    lockeslylcrit Member

    Jul 18, 2012
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    Not defending the guy or anything, but...

    That's not racism. It's ethnocentrism. AKA, the idea that your culture is superior to others, and/or other cultures are inferior to yours. Racism deals with biology, ethnocentrism deals with culture.
    For example, if someone claims that products of China are inferior (in general), that would be ethnocentrism. But (and please don't ban me for using this example) if someone said that products of China were inferior because of the small eyes of Chinese, that would be racism.

    Regardless, ethnocentrism no better than racism. Just wanted to point out this clarification. I'm finally putting my college major to work... by arguing on the internet. :D
     

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