About Armed Heroes Online vs. Torchlight (response from EGLS)

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by Serena zhang, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. sabin1981

    sabin1981 Well-Known Member

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    #61 sabin1981, Jul 18, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
    @squarezero

    EGLS physically took the audio and visuals files from one game, then inserted them into their own. That's as much theft as it is plagiarism. They're not just claiming responsibility for someone else's work, like what happened to you with that jerk who claimed to have made a website that you had done, but rather they took the physical creation of someone else and used it in their software... and THEN they claimed it was theirs. Wouldn't that pretty much make it a combination of theft and plagiarism? EGLS didn't just take the idea (which is what plagiarism boils down to) they took the product as well.

    @skillmaster

    For the love of god, just STOP. Okay? Just stop trying to pick and find excuses, stop trying to justify what EGLS has done just because you're annoyed about the possibility of the game being removed from the store. You're embarrassing yourself and giving the users on this site a bad name.
     
  2. squarezero

    squarezero Moderator
    Staff Member Patreon Silver

    You mean besides the Apple product you are holding in your hand? :p

    How about the old Hong Kong film industry, ruthlessly plundered by Western filmmakers and game developers (Quentin Tarantino's Reservoir Dogs took entire scenes from City on Fire).

    Let's avoid racist generalizations and focus on the matter at hand.
     
  3. Xexist

    Xexist Well-Known Member

    May 6, 2010
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    Their response is pretty much the definition of 'Smoke and mirrors'
     
  4. Skillmaster19

    Skillmaster19 Well-Known Member

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    There is no way they directly took the visuals from the game, the claims that they just recolored textures/reduced polygons mixed with new shaders isn't a valid claim. Look ad the differences, the overall designs don't matchup with a reduction of vertices in a model. The plant has holes in compeltely different locations.
     
  5. sabin1981

    sabin1981 Well-Known Member

    Mar 12, 2012
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    #65 sabin1981, Jul 18, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
    I don't care what you say, Runic have already flat-out stated that EGLS took the same models. I'll take the word over Runic than some already-proven-to-be-shady Chinese cloners.

    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2350959&postcount=15
    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2349850&postcount=156
    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2346024&postcount=57 << Damning.
    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2345685&postcount=40 << Even more damning if you know anything about modelling and visual work.
     
  6. florendas

    florendas Well-Known Member

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    Thats not a poly thing.

    its a transparent texture
    http://bencrowder.net/art/blender-quicktips/transparent-textures/
     
  7. Kikekun

    Kikekun Well-Known Member

    Sep 17, 2009
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    Lol...soon my friend, soon...
     
  8. Delusionaltool

    Delusionaltool Well-Known Member

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    correct but can you explain the same sound files including the messed up spelling ripped right from torchlight and put in their game, i get copying the art but the exact same colors is just how can i say this redonkulous!
     
  9. PrayForDeath

    PrayForDeath Well-Known Member

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    This post from EGLS is rather pathetic. They dodged all the accusations and presented irrelevant "evidence". I expect the game to be taken down any minute.
     
  10. squarezero

    squarezero Moderator
    Staff Member Patreon Silver

    Plagiarism is taking someone's work and "physically" (whatever that means in a digital medium) inserting into yours without attribution. Runic still owns Torchlight; EGLS are not depriving them of it, through clearly they are profiting from their work, which is at the core of the legal and moral definition of theft. Using someone else's "ideas" is not plagiarism; in many instances is not even ethically wrong. Plagiarism is about taking the expression of an idea and copying it word for word or altered only cosmetically. That's what EGLS did.
     
  11. metalslime

    metalslime Active Member

    Feb 19, 2009
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    Even if they didn't "steal" the actual models and assets, you're still not allowed to copy someone else's IP. If I redraw Mario with the red hat, mustache, and overalls in my way and put him in a game and called him something else, I'm pretty sure Nintendo would file a cease & desist and I'd lose if taken to court. Give credit where credit is deserved and EGLS needs to stop denying the truth.
     
  12. Wizard_Mike

    Wizard_Mike Well-Known Member

    Mar 17, 2011
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    You're completely ignoring the sound files they copy/pasted right out of the torchlight files. They didn't even bother to change the names of the sound files they stole!

    I mean come on...

    Is that a valid enough claim for you?
     
  13. tbaldree

    tbaldree Well-Known Member

    Dec 16, 2010
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    Moving the holes in the leaf texture takes seconds. They're just blobs of black in the alpha channel.
    Most of the textures have been minorly retouched, I guess in some sort of minimal effort to make them feel 'different' -

    The amount of effort it would take to replicate these assets from scratch with the perfectly matched proportions and structure would be triple what it would take to just make their own assets. It just makes no sense.

    The fact that the sound effects are direct rips further reinforces the obvious conclusion that all of these assets are rips with minor poly reduction and texture tweaks.

    Especially when you combine it with the fact that the Tilesets are also rips. And the monsters appear in the same tilesets, using the same sounds, and with the same animations. Those goblin death animations are identical to ours.

    The idea that they've just carefully observed every proportion, texture, and vertex and somehow recreated it with this level of fidelity is completely implausible.

    There's more than one building type in the Torchlight town. The reason that one in the shot doesn't perfectly match up is because it is a frankenstein of multiple Torchlight town building parts. Because they were made of intersecting chunks of geometry, it's really, really simple to twiddle around the bits to make new buildings. We know. We built it that way on purpose so that we could make new buildings. :p
     
  14. Delusionaltool

    Delusionaltool Well-Known Member

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    i think skillmaster works for EGLS hahahaha, kidding, dont worry a game like this will come out soon...no need to defend these blatant plagiarizers who cant even do proper research before defending themselves , Runic is a much bigger company and its going to devour EGLS in lawsuits. Just do a wikipedia search on torchlight, Runic already wins from the wikipedia and as i said before makes Egls argument invalid, RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!!!!

    p.s. WOOOOT 1000 POST!
     
  15. sabin1981

    sabin1981 Well-Known Member

    Mar 12, 2012
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    #75 sabin1981, Jul 18, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
    I guess we have different definitions on what constitutes a PRODUCT and what constitutes an IDEA then. Because from where I'm sitting, this is looking more like theft than just simple plagiarism.

    http://sophia.smith.edu/~jmoulton/plagiarism.pdf

    If you ask me, the whole definition needs to be expanded to include the digital age. It's not just about paintings and thoughts and ideas and sentences, now it's about "physical" (yeah, yeah, I know.. but there's no other word for it) aspects, such as 3D models, 2D textures, musical compositions. In the end we're both disagreeing over what basically boils down to the same thing -- whether you call it theft or plagiarism, the fact is EGLS took someone else's work, inserted it into their product and then called it their own.

    @tbaldree

    Your composure and restraint is staggering, it really is. I feel my OWN blood boiling over the brazen cheek (and cowardly defence) of what's happened... and I didn't have any hand in their creation, haha. You must have the patience of a saint and I hope Apple do the right thing. Then, I also hope EGLs learn from this -- take the existing base of their, supposedly enjoyable, game... and then make it over properly. Use their own, or outsourced, assets and then come back with a legitimate entry that people can enjoy without infringing on the artistic merit of others. It's obvious people are enjoying the game (psst Travis.. TorchLITE! :p) so do it over, do it properly, sell a product that they can be proud of AND that people can enjoy.
     
  16. Delusionaltool

    Delusionaltool Well-Known Member

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    #76 Delusionaltool, Jul 18, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
    i have seen something like this before on this forum, i forget the game, but the art assets were supposedly outsourced to a third party and it turned out the third party had ripped off some other games assets and the main dev had no idea till you guys on this forum called him out on it and showed screens from the ripped off game, could that be the case here? Are the Tgls artists outsourced third party?
     
  17. tbaldree

    tbaldree Well-Known Member

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    That's not the case here. While we outsourced some artwork, many of the assets on display here ( and obviously, the sounds ), were created in-house.

    Our assets aren't difficult to get at - Torchlight is a moddable game, and they are pretty easy to mess with on purpose - but our terms of use for the SDK and assets prohibit using them for monetary gain.
     
  18. Delusionaltool

    Delusionaltool Well-Known Member

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    #78 Delusionaltool, Jul 18, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
    So your saying you did use the original models since its so easy modded? How can you explain the sound files being exactly the same as torchlight same names which includes the bad spelling? you guys are digging your self a grave here, Runic is massive compared to you guys, they been in the game a while, you don't have a case here. Tgls could get shut down with all the money they could get you for, your best play here is stop making excuses change up the assets make them your own , fix the game so Runic does not destroy your company and save your self some money alot of money which could potentially close you down.

    You say your self your not allowed to use for monetary gain? but you are if the game costs money or if its free with iaps what money is made is being made with Torchlight models and sound? you say the sound is done in house , how can that be? you took torchlight and extracted the sounds in house that's what i see here, theft and plagiarism....
     
  19. PrayForDeath

    PrayForDeath Well-Known Member

    Jan 31, 2012
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    Agreed. Hat's off to you sir.
     
  20. Steffe

    Steffe New Member

    Jul 18, 2012
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    Shame he's one of the devs from Runic then ;(
     

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