About Armed Heroes Online vs. Torchlight (response from EGLS)

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by Serena zhang, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. Serena zhang

    Serena zhang Member

    Dec 29, 2011
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    #1 Serena zhang, Jul 17, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2012
    Hi everyone,

    Armed Heroes(3D MMORPG) is upcoming to the AppStore on Oct.12th in its new version.

    Main features:
    Latest iPhone and iOS system supported
    Self-developed engine, impression effect
    Brilliant particle effect,armor-fashion exchangeable
    Copy – core game mode, multiple difficulties challenge
    Brand new combination of different gameplays
    Clean and clear UI ensures smooth and easy controls.
    Voice chat instead of typing brings real-time online interaction within the game world

    Game trailer:
    http://youtu.be/ZerPYhGvk0U

    Thanks for your support!
     
  2. Joltrabbit

    Joltrabbit Well-Known Member

    Jul 5, 2012
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    The "There is nothing new under the sun" argument. Interesting. Carry on.
     
  3. squarezero

    squarezero Moderator
    Staff Member Patreon Silver

    Actually, that's not what they are arguing. The gist of their defense, for those who don't want to bother reading the whole posts are as follows:

    1) the differences between AH and TL are more significant than the similarities.

    2) the similarities between AH and TL are due to the fact that both games borrow from similar sources

    3) Runic is being hypocritical when they raise such a stink about AH

    I won't comment as whether these arguments are valid or reasonable. I do wonder why they haven't answered the second and (to my mind) more serious charge: the wholesale pilfering of sound files, many of which have the same names as the TL original.

    Not sure if Runic will respond to this (they might not see the point). Still, I guess it's a good thing that the developers of AH have put out their own take on this debacle.
     
  4. Bryan @ Muteki Corp

    Bryan @ Muteki Corp Well-Known Member

    Jul 4, 2009
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    President, The Muteki Corporation
    Now I'm not sure I'm reading this right but from what I'm seeing

    Runic: "You stole our art!"

    EGLS: "We totally wrote the code ourselves!"

    Or hmm, for the sake of having fun...

    Bank: "You stole our money!"

    Robber: "I paid for that getaway car fair and square!"
     
  5. Blackharon

    Blackharon Well-Known Member

    Mar 15, 2010
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    Game Designer for Ludia
    Canada
    Is it just me or do many of those 'similar' talents seem not similar at all.

    Case in point: #11. One is a bomb that shoots blades, where the other is a flying dagger.

    It appears all they are saying is 'Not EVERYTHING was inspired by/stolen from TL' and more interestingly 'Look at TL, they did the same as we did.'
     
  6. squarezero

    squarezero Moderator
    Staff Member Patreon Silver

    You are not reading it right.
     
  7. Bryan @ Muteki Corp

    Bryan @ Muteki Corp Well-Known Member

    Jul 4, 2009
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    President, The Muteki Corporation
    Also...can Runic be accused of "stealing" from Diablo 2...when the heads of Runic were the heads of Blizzard North, and the designers of Diablo 2?
     
  8. Eli

    Eli ᕕ┌◕ᗜ◕┐ᕗ
    Staff Member Patreon Silver Patreon Gold

    Here's the most damning post from the other thread-


     
  9. Bryan @ Muteki Corp

    Bryan @ Muteki Corp Well-Known Member

    Jul 4, 2009
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    President, The Muteki Corporation
    I don't see how else to read it.
    Runic is accusing EGLS of stealing their assets (in game development, that means maps, models, animations, textures, audio, etc) where the entire response from EGLS seems based around design and game engine / code differences, nothing about the assets themselves, beyond "here's 5 random monsters from TL that don't look like these 5 random monsters from AHO"
     
  10. Joltrabbit

    Joltrabbit Well-Known Member

    Jul 5, 2012
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    I wasnt going after the statement and I have to commend the detail of the OP.

    I just found the comparison to Torchlight to what came before it interesting.
     
  11. Blackharon

    Blackharon Well-Known Member

    Mar 15, 2010
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    Game Designer for Ludia
    Canada
    They didn't even say that... they said 'here's 5 random monsters that kinda sorta look like WoW monsters.' Except there's not much similarity in some of the (looking at the Orc models)
     
  12. Ryan @ MMG

    Ryan @ MMG Active Member

    Aug 4, 2011
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    Indie Game Dev
    Davis, CA
    I like pictures.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. CGSColin

    CGSColin Well-Known Member

    Jul 21, 2009
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    Given the ample evidence Runic appears to have that you've engaged in wholesale infringement of Torchlight intellectual property I would suggest that trying to convince a few thousand people on a gaming forum that it's perfectly okay to have done so is not what I'd call a "winning strategy".

    The people who will shortly be involved in this particular argument will most likely be judges, lawyers and, I'm going to go out on a limb and say Apple, who will probably be getting a DMCA takedown notice any moment now.

    As entertaining as this is, I'd recommend you stop digging this hole before it gets any deeper.
     
  14. squarezero

    squarezero Moderator
    Staff Member Patreon Silver

    Agreed. And EGLS has not responded to it. At all.
     
  15. tbaldree

    tbaldree Well-Known Member

    Dec 16, 2010
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    Game Developer
    Seattle
    #15 tbaldree, Jul 17, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
    What a very interesting reply.

    I find it amusing that you have chosen to use WoW assets to compare to the monsters - rather than the Torchlight monsters that I specifically compared them to in my screenshot image. ( which has kindly been posted in this thread now )

    I also find it amusing that you are doing a class comparison, when I never called out the class models. I have noted that you have failed to post an image of the class in Armed Heroes which uses the Undead Tier 10 armor as its basis.

    The fact that the sound effects in your game are taken with EXACT filenames from ours ( including misspellings, and with our boss names and class names intact ) is also very telling.

    I have no problem with inspiration. We are obviously inspired by Diablo, and make no bones about it. But we don't include any Diablo artwork or sounds in our game.

    You mentioned Fate and its systems. I happen to have written that game - and we use no assets from it ( with the exception of some Tommy Tallarico sound effects that we re-licensed )

    Posting pictures of random models with no association isn't much of a defense, I'm sorry.

    Twiddling the geometry a little bit and doing minor texture alterations doesn't equate to original artwork or even artwork 'inspired by'.

    How about this comparison image instead?

    I'm on tenterhooks awaiting your response.

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Patrick Klepek

    Patrick Klepek New Member

    Jul 17, 2012
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    I'd be happy to talk about these allegations in a more formal capacity, EGLS. My attempts to reach your company have so far been unsuccessful.

    Please get in touch.


    --
    patrick klepek
    news editor, giant bomb
    patrick@giantbomb.com
     
  17. glassf

    glassf New Member

    Jul 17, 2012
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    Ohio
    #17 glassf, Jul 17, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
    6587c13089087c5fea5c2c68bde79f8c419d6c127955017da6c63d706657567d

    3e48881dd7d439fea37491ac30c18e64bb1063218ef81fa3e9c92526e9357cec
     
  18. ghOti

    ghOti New Member

    Dec 28, 2009
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    I will play the part of the EGLS spokesperson, if that helps. I promise to be just as helpful as their real spokesperson would be.
     
  19. tbaldree

    tbaldree Well-Known Member

    Dec 16, 2010
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    Game Developer
    Seattle
    We're not making complaints about lifting design, or mechanics, or even STYLE.
    Even if they tried to replicate our style, and made a game with goblins, alchemists, undead dwarves, weird purple zealot ladies, tree golems, and a big end boss who is a purple dragon - WE DON'T CARE. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and all that.

    What we DO care about is using our ACTUAL assets with minor adjustments in their game, as opposed to making their own.
     
  20. Hawkn

    Hawkn Member

    Jul 17, 2012
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    At the risk of being banned:

    Dear Mrs/Mr. Serena Zhang, you sir/ma'am are incredibly stupid on two counts.

    1. Runic is not accusing you of making a game inspired by their game(s) (I'll get to that with 2), but of literally ripping art and assets from their game, and pasting them into yours, then claiming ownership.

    As if that weren't the funniest part...

    2. Every ####ing game you listed as an example of Torchlight taking inspiration from was... wait for it... ####ing made by either Travis Baldree, or Max and Erich Shaefer. Yeah, those guys that run Runic.

    Oh, and I got Total Biscuit to point out your stupidity on Twitter. He has over 100,000 more followers than you.

    Not to mention stuff like Kotaku, and many other big sites. Have fun with this soon to be media massacre. ;)
     

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