A Road To Massive Downloads Instant Fame

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by 1stSPIN, Jan 12, 2015.

  1. 1stSPIN

    1stSPIN Well-Known Member

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    I have been experimenting and yes advertising vs posting in forums and hoping that someone is going to get you to the top wins hands down. Here is a solution to get the advertising you need at a substantial lower cost than using google ads etc. Form a syndicate of developers, pool your intended promo dollars and negotiate and buy a game that has a huge following. Then use that game to promote your games and ripple your promoted games to promote your new games. Once you get on the upper rungs of the ladder you will have staying power.
     
  2. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

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  3. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

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    This sounds ridiculous.

    So yeah lets just 'easily' buy one of those games with a huge following just to then market our own very poor average apps ?

    Just nonsense, so devs pool together and re-mortgage houses to buy a game with a huge following, say Clash of Clans ? Then once they've got Clash of Clans they can advertise their own games themselves ?

    Pur-lease.
     
  4. 1stSPIN

    1stSPIN Well-Known Member

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    That's what some of the big players do and that is why they stay big.:)
     
  5. Columbo

    Columbo Well-Known Member

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    I think what you're describing is a publisher.

    So your recipe to be a successful developer is to be a publisher instead?
     
  6. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

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    The big players who buy huge games have huge bank accounts.

    Unless you have quality long lasting games it is a house of cards ready to fall over even if you do that.

    To be honest a lot of your posts come across as a marketer without a decent product looking to make a quick buck with totally unrealistic ideas which haven't been thought out.
     
  7. PikPok

    PikPok Well-Known Member

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    If a single app is being used as a promotional vehicle for a group of developers, how is the viral/cross promotional power not compromised by being diluted amongst so many participants?
     
  8. negitoro

    negitoro Well-Known Member

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    Well this is just kind of how cross promotion works at some big publishers - acquire companies with attractive IPs and large user numbers and then move those users to move among your other games. So it's not like this is something really novel.

    The issue is that I don't really think the way you describe it really works.

    Where would you even find so many like-minded, equally wealthy developers with significant marketing budgets that want ownership in another studio or a new IP at the same time? I imagine to get a top tier title - one with significant number of users, well known IP, strong retention of users with a broad demographic that would appeal to multiple developers AND that was up for sale - is prohibitively expensive unless you find a significant number of partners.

    Even then, the cost per user for you and your company personally, will likely be much higher than simply buying a campaign. (One that doesn't result in scaring off and alienating the users as they get spammed for cross promotion with a dozen different games at once)

    Even if you found partners, who would maintain control or ownership? Would you form a brand new company as a partnership among the significant number of developers you'd need to start the syndicate? What happens when your goals differ from those of your collective? Who wants the burden of running this company that you share with so many other people? What do you do about the costs of running a mid size development studio during the times when you don't actually need a marketing push?

    Staying power is not even guaranteed long term for everyone involved as that depends heavily on the audience of both their game and the game just purchased.

    You might as well have started this 'plan' with "Make a game that attracts millions of users".
     
  9. 1stSPIN

    1stSPIN Well-Known Member

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    If you think all of the games that have millions of downloads would have those without a big push then massive downloads only depends on a great game. :)
     
  10. 1stSPIN

    1stSPIN Well-Known Member

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    If you do the math using advertising value only as a factor you are talking about 10s of millions depending on the game. But this market also has a buyer factor, there are only so many people interested in buying and if someone needed to sell they would have to discount. Also there is a longevity factor which means the game is hot but for how long. Each minute could change its market value.
     
  11. PikPok

    PikPok Well-Known Member

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    Any independent developers that have millions of dollars to invest in buying a share of a high performing game worth "tens of millions" is already going to have a massive install base.

    At that point, it would be much easier for them to just cross promote their titles with other allied developers. Which is what many are already doing.
     
  12. 1stSPIN

    1stSPIN Well-Known Member

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    You would use the winner you bought to produce more winners so that you would have more games to cross promote. The first games that would get promoted would have to be good picks. all of the partners would have to look at the venture as a business as from the developer interests.
     
  13. 1stSPIN

    1stSPIN Well-Known Member

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    Once you have a big game you would be foolish not to the full potential of your game and being a publisher is one of those opportunities that comes by way of gravity. :)
     
  14. 1stSPIN

    1stSPIN Well-Known Member

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    Now you know where the phrase - The rich get richer - comes from. :)
     
  15. 1stSPIN

    1stSPIN Well-Known Member

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    Yes I am a promoter. I was that all of my life and did very well. When I was 19 a young kid from the sticks armed with my artist talent I went from Val Caron a small town near Sudbury to Toronto. I showed 2 paintings to galleries in Toronto and was rejected. I had $1,500 in my pocket and took a job with Honest Ed drug store stocking shelves. I meet a man who had a gallery gift shop and I painted a few painting for him for $25 a painting. In 2 weeks he asked if I wanted to buy his location for $3,000. I paid him $1,500 and started to paint and sold my first painting for $150 the same day then a painting for $750 within a week. He did not tell me his lease was up in 3 months so I had to move and after a year the owner of that property wanted to develop it so I decide to end the move problem and bought a building in the Yorkville area on Cumberland street. I had to renovate the building and had did not enough money to meet the 1st mortgage payment. I made a painting put it in the window and sold it for $1,500 and paid the mortgage for 3 months. To cut the story short one of the paintings I showed a gallery when I first came to Toronto I made into prints and sold over 3,000 of them for $19.95 and over 1,000 larger ones for $49.95. Within 2 years I bought a house in Forest Hill owned by the 2 sons of the Eaton family one of the richest families in Canada.

    I don't want to bore you because I have a number of stories that are think big and you will become big.

    With this business and it is that a business I am asking the questions you may not be prepared to ask because you feel they are beyond you.

    Off and on topic you said I should concentrate on making a good game because todate I don't have one. Take a look at Sumdoit and tell me why you think that is not a great app. I use it everyday.

    Look you are in a comfort zone because you are in the protective wings of those who are looking for the path, the one game that will change your life, you know you have it in you and you will continue at all cost. That is the starting point and it is a good one because most big companies start with that but maybe the market has change to the big stay big.
     
  16. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

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    Your right I am in a comfort zone, but not for the reasons you list. Game development is a hobby of sorts for me. I have a job running a digital learning centre in a museum which I love (and is very successful, we just sold out 52 workshops in Jan!!!). That is why I am in a comfort zone.I am lucky I get to game to conferences and meet some of the successful games which are made by love and the results show.

    I did take a look at Sumdoit, the app works fine but I am not sure why it is a great app. Graphics are fine, game mechanics aren't for me (but then I hate balancing spreadsheets so numbers aren't my favourite things right now). But I stick your app next to something like super hexagon or bardbarian and put it in a room of kids I can almost guarantee 99% would pick super hexagon or bardbarian for example. It is fine as a mini game, but not going to set the world on fire or anything.

    This is not to say mine are perfect or anything but I am trying to improve :)

    There is space in the market for great games to succeed with small or clever marketing, but to be honest there are very few great games. Most people look at everything but their game for their failures which is often a mistake.


    The easiest way to success in appstore IMO is to use IP which has built in sales (EG Star Wars). I am sure there are some middle level IP's (not as big as Star Wars) which would be much cheaper than acquiring a successful game and give you that early critical mass of sales to see if the game is worth playing.
     
  17. 1stSPIN

    1stSPIN Well-Known Member

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    #17 1stSPIN, Jan 13, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2015
    If the apps you are referring to are math apps then you have put Super Hexagon and Barbarian vs Sumdoit on the same race track and done an honest comparison. I love math and thank you for posting those apps. I will give them a try and if they give me the same math / problem solving brain exercise as Sumdoit I will be a BIG fan. :)

    Post Edit --- As I mentioned before I am in China so it is a bit hard to search apps but I did manage to get some info on Bardbarian and is seems to have very little to do with math/numbers so not sure if it was a come comparison. I must say the graphics I found on yahoo image files for Super Hexagon are fantastic. Did not see any numbers and assume it is an image match game but let me check it out further and get back to you on that.

    IP means what? Love to learn about the easiest way to success and once again thank you for your info. :)
     
  18. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

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    no neither of them are math apps. But they are your comp. Basically you aren't just against similar apps. If you want to compete against math apps just look at anything by wolfram(not really an App but totally owns the math market). There stuff is awesome and is already in most schools.

    A math app is rather niche and isn't going to do a ton of downloads (which isn't what you are going for from what I understand).

    IP =intellectual property
     
  19. 1stSPIN

    1stSPIN Well-Known Member

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    Ok we got that comparison thing out of the way, the apps you are comparing to my Sumdoit have very little to do with math if anything at all. A good idea in the future is to compare apples to apples if you want to make your point.

    Interesting I read that the 2nd app you pointed out did not make money and they decide to go free with the hope to turn a profit. I am not a big fan of paid apps but I am researching it. If it is a paid I I would offer it for free for a good period of time then a buy it if you like it. When I was in my 20s in the art business I sold painting by telling customer they could not buy a painting on the spot but they had to try it for a week first and if they like it they could complete the purchase. my sales tripled. Then I created a policy to let people buy a painting over 10 months without interest charges that increased my sales 4 times again. I had a few other polices that also increased sales but one of the best was to make prints of my paintings. These were put in the window of my galler and sold from $9.95 framed. When people walked by they would stop and decided to come into my gallery because they no longer felt the gallery prices were beyond their pocket book. Many times it resulted in them buying a painting for a few hundred to a few thousand dollars. I am bit off track but I think some innovative thinking in marketing your apps will improve your results :)

    Niche market is what I am looking for. This type of market will have players coming back if the app is math and is challenging and challenging it is. I can handle the 3 x 3 grid all plus and sometime plus and minus but above that I am in deep water and my math is not bad. It is amazing that simple math with no digits greater than 9 and no answer greater than 20 that Sumdoit can be so challenging. At least once a day I will play 3 to 6 games. It takes less than a minute and if I have some problems solving it it will take a few minutes which does not cut into my business time. The upper levels will challenge any genius and may leave them stuck and forced to pushing the help button. :)
     
  20. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

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    I strongly disagree that you are competing against that niche. You are in that room full of kids and "what will they download"? You are so also against luminosity which does a done of advertising.

    I guess you would say you are in the puzzle game area, then lightbot to me a lot more fun. I think that is amazing. (probably why they ended up making a sequel)
     

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