Posting on two forums is rapidly getting confusing! I think I'll stick to this one seeing as you read both Wes. Anyway like I said in the other forum, I think what you really need is more content. Not more expendables, fancy "hats" or anything like that. What I would really like to see, and would pay for, are things like new levels, new bosses, different item drops... something that enhances and deepens the gameplay and reduces repetition. But that's the rub ain't it? You can't add more levels unless you get more money. I know you guys worked very hard on the previous updates... but in my games they don't make a huge difference. The locker is great only if you manage to spot it and don't already have good items/had the foresight to store good things in the previous round. The item shop was almost always too expensive for me although it has proven useful for food. To me the significant update was the Hell level and the monsters (love those agents). I want to see more of that. Look I feel your difficulty even if I can't offer a good suggestion on how to get out of it. I do wish you guys all the best and look forward to see what you will implement after this. And yes, in the meantime I will give rogue mode a go and see how far I can go.
Yep, that's basically it. *I* shouldn't even have a job on the game at this point looking at our sales (not to mention bug after bug after bug in live releases :/ ), tripling development cost to add art for a new level? Well, maybe if the OS X port does well. I could make a new world easy as cake, but I'd have to do it with, at most, simple recolours. Which I suppose I could do, but then would anyone buy it?
Wes, dont you dare think that way about your work on 100 rogues. your game is one i've played from day 0 and i've always gone back to. i wish i was like mr geldhof and had gamer friends to recommend it to! i start explaining rogue-likes, however, and they glaze over... anyway, i would have lost many a job many more a time compared to you. bugs be bugs man. you've been consistent in stamping them out - refer to astraware's Weird Worlds: Return To Infinite Space; still no bug fixes months on so... 2.9?
I was one of those who bought the game at launch for $4.99, and was peeved at the change to $0.99 + IAP model, but in Wes' defense, I went through and reviewed this entire thread and Wes has been completely honest about this - the free content specifically mentioned was Items and Hell, and they delivered those free of charge. All that was said about the remaining characters was that they would be in later updates. (Bart Simpson voice: "Where's my DinoMan, where's my DinoMan...") That being said, they did not publicize the fact that new characters would be (mostly) IAP - the update was posted and Skelly was $0.99. That seems a lot for a new character, and normally would seem like a money grab, but in the case of 100 Rogues I can see the effort it would take in art and game balance to add additional playable character, especially in those that play very differently from existing characters/monsters. (i.e. not reusing existing assets.) Those of you buying the game for a buck are getting a fantastic deal, there's a lot of game here for that price. Add the existing IAP and you've still got a lot of game for $3. Back to the gouging. iAds was a serious mistake and I'm glad they removed them ASAP. I won't buy consumables. I will buy more unique characters, but I'm iffy on playable monsters (again the assets/time thing) - best in my mind would be one new character and a playable monster for $0.99. As long as the monsters have a different leaderboard, who cares if they're as carefully balanced or whatever - just give us a few high level monsters with their normal abilities and a chance to level up a bit. Final thought: If they were well done, I'd pay for more Challenge Levels. The carrot would be an additional game-start bonus like the original levels. Similar to the 'consumables' idea but sits a lot better with me. No reason why you couldn't keep creating (and selling) Challenge Levels. Even if you only made a few of them to accompany the new characters. // End Rant
If it adds more levels to make the game overall larger(more unique drops, new enemies and/or different color variations, and possibly a boss but not necessary)...I'll buy it! Hell, you got my support 100% on any new content you add in any future updates; that's how much I enjoy 100 Rogues. I only hope to see it prosper with more content. I also agree with drelbs on everything.
So! 2.9 has shipped to Apple. Here's the patch notes! New Features! Runes: Tactically advantageous tiles appear throughout the game, granting boosts of strength, health, energy, accuracy, etc., to any player (or Monster!) that occupies them. 2 more monster class IAPs: Mystic! Spellcaster with fiery abilities, control powers, and the ability to locate and activate Runes hidden runes in the area. And, of course, Teleswap. Necromeister! Able to raise corpses back to life to fight for him, in addition to a bevy of nether-blasting spells. Can also offer items to his Dark Master in exchange for stronger minions. Balance changes Familiars now follow you to new levels Crystal Ball will teleport after taking significant damage Familiar following behavior improved Food is slightly more common in Endless Mode Monster Max Health increases proportionally in subsequent rounds of Endless Mode Occasional crash when dying as a Monster class fixed. Rogue-Bot's Backup Copy ability now works as intended; Backup Copies continue to be made until Max HP falls beneath 5. Turns are no longer passed when closing the menu, except when equipment has changed. Significant stability improvements over extended play periods
Oh... jeeze Reading this discussion... it's hard to know what to say. I guess I feel bad for the devs, but also frustrated about this aspect of gaming--perhaps we should call it "Pityware." I think I bought 100 Rogues during one of its .99 sales, and played it a few times. I liked the game a lot--although the large number of bugs and grueling difficulty turned me off. I remember the guys behind World of Goo saying how complex, difficult games aren't well received in the app store. So a 'Roguelike' game may not be the best fit to the general consumer audience. Regardless, I think it's a brilliantly made game, that demonstrates a lot of thought and craftsmanship. But I'm getting tired of having to identify with the developer's woes and difficulties. I'm used to supporting some things out of the (very limited) kindness of my heart: charities, performing arts, that sort of thing. When I give money to Amnesty International, or spend the big bucks to go see live theatre, I know that even if the "product" that I'm getting may not entirely be to my satisfaction, that I'm supporting the greater good. Or something like that. I prefer my software/hardware purchases to be more transactional. I give you money, you give me a good game, which translates into a certain amount of enjoyment. Similar to the way I go to a restaurant. Sure--I might drop by the neighborhood café now and again to help support it. But if they burn my coffee and mess up the soup, I'll stop going there altogether. I'm tired of feeling bad that I'm too cheap to lay out the extra .99 to buy the Skellyman character. Or that I'm not properly supporting the devs. Yes, I'm aware of that famous Oatmeal comic, and I agree entirely with the sentiment. But can't I just hand you my ninety-nine cents and not feel bad about myself? The app store is a business transaction. Yes, ideally the apps are "labors of love," but I feel like that's being used to justify poor workmanship, bad coding, and overall lack of enjoyability. I want to buy a game because it's totally awesome, not because: 1) The development team worked day and night for ten years 2) The art was drawn by a quadriplegic Tibetan monk 3) The music was composed by local Cincinnati DJ legend... Sorry if this is coming off a bit harsh. I should add again how much I liked 100 Rogues, and I hope the dev teams reaps the rewards that they deserve from such a well-made game.
I want the opposite of you feeling bad for us! I mean, I definitely want people to see the same value in what this team produces that I do, but I don't think we're entitled to that just because we've worked hard, or that you should feel guilty if you don't. There are many other games out there. All that gets me hot under the collar is being accused of greed / laziness because we chose to put so much more into this game over time, which seems to happen time and again. The iAd is an example of that.
Sounds like a pretty healthy update. Thanks Wes! I'm really looking forward to trying out the Necromeister, he sounds like a fun Monster Class to play.
Can't wait for the update although I'm still having to much fun circus flipping baddies and back stabbing them with Skelly. He/She is a bad bad little hero/monster.
fair warning, Necromeister is exceptionally tricky to play. The two things not mentioned there: he has no basic attack, and his loses health each time he uses his skills. Long story short: he starves a lot easier than the other classes while waiting for health to come back to power his skills, summoning included.
I strongly agree, wholeheartedly. I do not point specifically towards 100 Rogues. I've bought the game but haven't played that much with it yet. Developers jumping in the iOS arena must understand that, ultimately, the truth is in the pudding. An overabundance of clones and superficial one button gameplay can lead to a sense of collective fatigue (except for fresh exceptions like Tiny Wings.) The dime-an-app race to the bottom has brought its load of positives and negatives. An example of the latter would be the polarization of gameplay between quick picker-uppers for a short break, and Gameloft and EA's mega-productions. I personally feel that deep but approachable games by indie houses have gotten the short end of the stick in this environment. I'm not saying they don't exist, just that it's harder for them to get properly noticed and bring proper financial rewards to its devs for the amount of time invested. I'm thinking of titles such as Sword of Fargoal, 100 Rogues and Space Miner. There are many stimulating games with fresh mechanics, but too often their replayability factor is limited to accomplishments and skill competition. There simply isn't that much keeping you coming back. I fear this may lead to a "disposable gaming" mindset from both creators and players. I know I'm new here and don't want to swig my stick too freely around this early, but I believe this specific point bears emphasis.
Dear Wes, Not sure if you remember me but I bought your game since day 1 and I was a fan. Sure there were some bad buggy times buy I enjoyed your game anyway. Then order and chaos online game came out and I got addicted to it. Been playing it 24 hours almost. Killing touch arcade forum members and listening go them bitch about me here in forum was so fun. But then I chanced this thread and saw something about monster class? I'm like huh wait what? I open my 100 rogues and see the two classes tourist and rogue bot which I have never played before. I get excited. And play it. And get even more excited knowing There's two more classes coming. I have not gone back to order and chaos in 24 hours. My guild mates in that game are getting angry with me. And it's all because of you. Keep it up wes. And oh yea I'd gladly pay u 0.99 cents for a character. I know you need to feed your family and what not as well. I think 0.99 cents is perfectly fair. How much have I spent on your games so far? 5 bucks initially, plus 0.99 for skeleton, plus 2 bucks for monster class. Total 8 bucks. In my currency thats times 3. 24 bucks. What can that buy me? Two star bucks drinks. Totally fair, considering the amount of time this game has kept me occupied. I guess if someone isn't crazy about the game then that price would be steep. But from a fan, I'm saying, fair price, keep it up, and hope to see more from you! Ps: add more items XD. Suggestion add random prefix to the drops? That gives some bonus stats? Like diablo? Lol. That'd be cool though I think game mechanic would change significantly. Anyway gtg. I'm hiding in my client's toilet, plying your game while I pretend to take a crap
Very happy to hear that Baronic, and yep, I do remember you from the early days. So, those of you that have bought endless mode might remember the purchase screen mention an upcoming moon mode. We've got the tileset ready to go for it, but now we're looking to do some special, retro-y stuff with the monsters (since, after all, they are Moon-Monsters). Whadday'all think of this Game Boy palette filter? http://imgur.com/mLmD5
Very interesting (the filter). I think with the redesigned monsters it will look even better. As of now it feels kind of incomplete. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out. I decided to give 100 Rogues another chance since you're saying the IAP consumables (if they're implemented) won't affect leaderboards. Got the Skellyman and the extra modes. Lots of fun. And don't worry, I bought the IAP because I wanted to, not because I feel bad for you. I'm sure these bugs are reported already, but I do get crashes on my iPod Touch 4 with latest iOS when trying to cycle to the global scores and then out of them before they load, and it seems that monsters cannot be harmed when standing in front of the entrance down to the next level. Nothing major at all, just thought I'd mention it.
Thanks! I may actually reject the live submission if ican find / fix those fast enough; there's one other problem I want to take care of. Also, have a Mac OS x app store and mystic preview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71PdAKFZnlA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
This is a bug, but one that has been around for a few versions and not what it appears. You are actually damaging the monsters, you just cant see the damage counter because the numbers appear behind the doorway sprite. this happens in front of entrances and exits, and doorframes as well (if i recall correctly). Just gotta keep hittin them!
Oops, my bad. I never noticed before, but I haven't played a ton for quite a while. I have been playing a lot again recently though. The Skellyman is absolutely a blast, and I am loving the new game modes, especially Combo Mode. It also seems the difficulty has been rebalanced better in recent builds. Glad I gave the game another chance.
