licensedAs forum readers began to notice last night, Manomio's Commodore 64 emulator for the iPhone, which finally landed in the App Store a few days back after a long and rocky road, has been pulled by Apple.

Before letting the emulator into the App Store, Apple required that Manomio remove the BASIC interpreter from the application.  Apparently the developer disabled BASIC rather than actually removing it.  Many iPhone users found a way to activate the interpreter and, after catching wind of this, Apple pulled the app from the store.

Manomio indicates it has since submitted an updated version of the emulator that addresses the issue at hand.  Let's hope this one gets the stamp of approval from Apple and lives a long life in the App Store.

  • Adams Immersive

    When I heard of the trick for enabling BASIC, I was kind of waiting for this to happen. (The trick doesn't sound like something the devs allowed on purpose, just an oversight.)

  • 1337brian

    You have not to be clever, or a hacker, to get to basic... It was pretty much out in the open... Just putting it out there...

  • Adams Immersive

    When I heard of the trick for enabling BASIC, I was kind of waiting for this to happen. (The trick doesn't sound like something the devs allowed on purpose, just an oversight.)

  • 1337brian

    You have not to be clever, or a hacker, to get to basic... It was pretty much out in the open... Just putting it out there...

  • Aaron

    Software Developers' General Truth #351:

    If the Hot Coffee scandal taught us anything, it's that users will always find the stuff you didn't want them to find, and it will always cause you disproportionately more heartburn than it would have to simply remove it in the first place.

    • Ape lover

      what scandal? it's the pathetic bigotry of the US and its stupid PCness that required it to be an easter egg at first place. f/ck censorship.

      • Dreezix

        The U.S. is hardly the only country with weird censorship laws. Take a look at Germany or Australia's some time.

  • Aaron

    Software Developers' General Truth #351:

    If the Hot Coffee scandal taught us anything, it's that users will always find the stuff you didn't want them to find, and it will always cause you disproportionately more heartburn than it would have to simply remove it in the first place.

    • Ape lover

      what scandal? it's the pathetic bigotry of the US and its stupid PCness that required it to be an easter egg at first place. f\/ck censorship.

      • Dreezix

        The U.S. is hardly the only country with weird censorship laws. Take a look at Germany or Australia's some time.

  • http://ignorethecode.net LKM

    This is slightly ridiculous. What does Apple think the BASIC interpreter will do? Do they expect people to circumvent Apple's app store by distributing fart apps as C64 BASIC source code that people have to type into their C64 emulators?

  • http://ignorethecode.net LKM

    This is slightly ridiculous. What does Apple think the BASIC interpreter will do? Do they expect people to circumvent Apple's app store by distributing fart apps as C64 BASIC source code that people have to type into their C64 emulators?

  • estyst

    shame on me for not buying it :/

    ... now it would be pointless :(

    • Akira

      Appul0u$

  • estyst

    shame on me for not buying it :/

    ... now it would be pointless :(

    • Akira

      Appul0u$

  • Derik

    What is BASIC? And why is it so important?

    • http://www.squarezerostudio.com squarezero

      BASIC is the main user-accessible computer language that came with the Commodore 64. As the name suggests, it's not something that you would use to create sophisticated applications; still, many of us wrote our first games with that language back in the day. For some people, having access to C64 Basic is like mainlining raw nostalgia.

      The SDK does not permit applications that either 1) run outside programs or 2) create their own programming environments. The C64 emulator got around the first objection by only running programs purchased at the AppStore; the inclusion of BASIC (even if somewhat hidden) runs smack into the second one.

    • estyst

      for teh fun :)

  • Derik

    What is BASIC? And why is it so important?

    • http://www.squarezerostudio.com squarezero

      BASIC is the main user-accessible computer language that came with the Commodore 64. As the name suggests, it's not something that you would use to create sophisticated applications; still, many of us wrote our first games with that language back in the day. For some people, having access to C64 Basic is like mainlining raw nostalgia.

      The SDK does not permit applications that either 1) run outside programs or 2) create their own programming environments. The C64 emulator got around the first objection by only running programs purchased at the AppStore; the inclusion of BASIC (even if somewhat hidden) runs smack into the second one.

    • estyst

      for teh fun :)

  • Jareco

    What a farce...

  • Jareco

    What a farce...

  • Droidaphone

    Yeah, I don't get it either. Why does Apple care that this app could run BASIC? B/c users could type in unathorized BASIC games? B/c somehow you could use an emulator shell running BASIC to create some evil, black-hat style hacking device?

    I don't see why from any standpoint, the inclusion of BASIC is such a sticking point.

    • Anonymous

      With Basic accessible, the C64 app becomes an emulator. All you would need are the SELF-INSTALLED roms which are probably floating around somewhere without the consent of the rights-owners and circumventing the AppStore from controlling content.

      I can see why it was pulled from the AppStore.

      • http://ignorethecode.net LKM

        "The fact that it's BASIC is not the point, it's the fact that it goes against the policies of the AppStore."

        Yeah. That's the problem. It shouldn't, because the policies are kind of stupid.

  • Droidaphone

    Yeah, I don't get it either. Why does Apple care that this app could run BASIC? B/c users could type in unathorized BASIC games? B/c somehow you could use an emulator shell running BASIC to create some evil, black-hat style hacking device?

    I don't see why from any standpoint, the inclusion of BASIC is such a sticking point.

    • Anonymous

      With Basic accessible, the C64 app becomes an emulator. All you would need are the SELF-INSTALLED roms which are probably floating around somewhere without the consent of the rights-owners and circumventing the AppStore from controlling content.

      I can see why it was pulled from the AppStore.

      • http://ignorethecode.net LKM

        "The fact that it's BASIC is not the point, it's the fact that it goes against the policies of the AppStore."

        Yeah. That's the problem. It shouldn't, because the policies are kind of stupid.

  • Joshua Ochs

    They knew Apple's demands (fair or not is another discussion), and they tried to pull an end-run around them. Non-story here, and I don't blame Apple one bit on this.

    Now, on Apple's demand in the first place that BASIC be disabled and third-party software disallowed... I understand the rationale for the blanket rule - they don't want Java, .Net, or some other runtime to become a de facto application stack on the iPhone. Fine, I get that. They also probably want to stay away from the gray area of most emulators (NES, SNES, etc) that have little legitimate or legal use on computers. I get that as well. But extending that to not allowing BASIC on a C64 emulator is silly, to put it mildly.

    • http://www.squarezerostudio.com squarezero

      I'm not one to defend AppStore policy (because frankly, not even Phil Schiller can), but it's difficult to set up a rule about applications not running third-party software and then justify an exception for an App that seems "harmless" enough. If there's one thing that people complain about is Apple's inconsistent application of the SDK. Here they have a pretty cut-and-dry case; it's tough to see how they could have acted differently.

  • Joshua Ochs

    They knew Apple's demands (fair or not is another discussion), and they tried to pull an end-run around them. Non-story here, and I don't blame Apple one bit on this.

    Now, on Apple's demand in the first place that BASIC be disabled and third-party software disallowed... I understand the rationale for the blanket rule - they don't want Java, .Net, or some other runtime to become a de facto application stack on the iPhone. Fine, I get that. They also probably want to stay away from the gray area of most emulators (NES, SNES, etc) that have little legitimate or legal use on computers. I get that as well. But extending that to not allowing BASIC on a C64 emulator is silly, to put it mildly.

    • http://www.squarezerostudio.com squarezero

      I'm not one to defend AppStore policy (because frankly, not even Phil Schiller can), but it's difficult to set up a rule about applications not running third-party software and then justify an exception for an App that seems "harmless" enough. If there's one thing that people complain about is Apple's inconsistent application of the SDK. Here they have a pretty cut-and-dry case; it's tough to see how they could have acted differently.

  • Fafner

    I really don't understand why it would matter to apple.
    Even if you are willing to write a couple hundred lines in Basic there is still no way to save!
    I figured out how to get into it withing 5 minutes of downloading the app and wrote the same 2 lines 99% of everyone else wrote and was happy and didn't feel the need to mess with it anymore.

    5 print "Apple please leave this app alone!"
    10 goto 5
    run

    • Dreezix

      It's based on a well-known C-64 emulator so there's probably a way to save it... Probably. It'll definitely be something you can do on jailbroken phones if it's not already.

  • Fafner

    I really don't understand why it would matter to apple.
    Even if you are willing to write a couple hundred lines in Basic there is still no way to save!
    I figured out how to get into it withing 5 minutes of downloading the app and wrote the same 2 lines 99% of everyone else wrote and was happy and didn't feel the need to mess with it anymore.

    5 print "Apple please leave this app alone!"
    10 goto 5
    run

    • Dreezix

      It's based on a well-known C-64 emulator so there's probably a way to save it... Probably. It'll definitely be something you can do on jailbroken phones if it's not already.

  • hishammatar

    As a proud nostalgia victim myself, I bought the app just minutes after the issue. I found as many ohers the trick that enables basic and, quite frankly, I dont see much threat here. But, hey, a rule is a rule. Besides it took me an hour to write one of those siple scripts you'd find on the manual on that mini keyboard (the flying baloon etc...) but it was like being 13 again...cheers

  • hishammatar

    As a proud nostalgia victim myself, I bought the app just minutes after the issue. I found as many ohers the trick that enables basic and, quite frankly, I dont see much threat here. But, hey, a rule is a rule. Besides it took me an hour to write one of those siple scripts you'd find on the manual on that mini keyboard (the flying baloon etc...) but it was like being 13 again...cheers

  • Virtualball

    The fact that it's BASIC is not the point, it's the fact that it goes against the policies of the AppStore. Sure, BASIC is harmless, but why should Apple make an exception on the rules because it's "harmless?" Soon, another developer will scream "they did it for C64, why not me!?" and then the internet will just get mad at Apple again. It's a double-edged sword. Frankly, Apple was right to stick to their rules on this one. It's better to be consistent than to not be (which is weird to say about the AppStore approval process haha)

    • Dreezix

      I'm not entirely convinced it's harmless; I mean every possible trick of C-64 Basic is well known to a lot of people and I wouldn't put it past someone to come up with a way to use it to jailbreak phones or launch unsavory third-party apps (such as wi-fi password crackers, etc.)

      I know basic seems like a quaint little toy but there is a lot you can potentially do with it, especially considering the memory and speed of the device (which is what, a 2000x more than the C-64?)

  • Virtualball

    The fact that it's BASIC is not the point, it's the fact that it goes against the policies of the AppStore. Sure, BASIC is harmless, but why should Apple make an exception on the rules because it's "harmless?" Soon, another developer will scream "they did it for C64, why not me!?" and then the internet will just get mad at Apple again. It's a double-edged sword. Frankly, Apple was right to stick to their rules on this one. It's better to be consistent than to not be (which is weird to say about the AppStore approval process haha)

    • Dreezix

      I'm not entirely convinced it's harmless; I mean every possible trick of C-64 Basic is well known to a lot of people and I wouldn't put it past someone to come up with a way to use it to jailbreak phones or launch unsavory third-party apps (such as wi-fi password crackers, etc.)

      I know basic seems like a quaint little toy but there is a lot you can potentially do with it, especially considering the memory and speed of the device (which is what, a 2000x more than the C-64?)

  • Boardumb

    I'm no programmer, and don't care about having BASIC in there or not. I just want that sweet, sweet C64 player on my iPod!! Damn, I picked the wrong weekend to go out of town to somewhere with no internet. Come back to the app store soon please!

  • Boardumb

    I'm no programmer, and don't care about having BASIC in there or not. I just want that sweet, sweet C64 player on my iPod!! Damn, I picked the wrong weekend to go out of town to somewhere with no internet. Come back to the app store soon please!

  • thewiirocks

    Many of you seem to miss a core issue here. BASIC is the C64's *operating system*. It can't be disabled completely and still have the emulator function. The solution methinks, is to design their emulator to take a custom ROM format. Then sign the ROMs with a private/public key pair. Bam. Short of a hacked version of the emulator, no one is loading custom ROMs or booting to BASIC.

    Public key cryptography rocks like that. ;)

    • http://c64.manomio.com Stuart Carnie

      That is exactly right…and the future of C64 we hope...

      Stuart Carnie
      CTO, Manomio

      • It's a steal

        So Stuart how do you feel about Manomio withholding the GPL'd Frodo iPhone sources. Considering you used the open sourced Frodo code to make this app surely you have to disagree with this shady practice?

      • Bodhee

        There is such a thing as karma and this shady developer
        got his. Almost got away with it too if it wasn't for his idiotic
        glitch. Funny when you go to basic and load "*",8 1
        it loads a cracked copy of the game
        this guy Is Lucky he doesn't get sued

      • Jim
  • thewiirocks

    Many of you seem to miss a core issue here. BASIC is the C64's *operating system*. It can't be disabled completely and still have the emulator function. The solution methinks, is to design their emulator to take a custom ROM format. Then sign the ROMs with a private/public key pair. Bam. Short of a hacked version of the emulator, no one is loading custom ROMs or booting to BASIC.

    Public key cryptography rocks like that. ;)

    • http://c64.manomio.com Stuart Carnie

      That is exactly right…and the future of C64 we hope...

      Stuart Carnie
      CTO, Manomio

      • It's a steal

        So Stuart how do you feel about Manomio withholding the GPL'd Frodo iPhone sources. Considering you used the open sourced Frodo code to make this app surely you have to disagree with this shady practice?

      • Bodhee

        There is such a thing as karma and this shady developer
        got his. Almost got away with it too if it wasn't for his idiotic
        glitch. Funny when you go to basic and load "*",8 1
        it loads a cracked copy of the game
        this guy Is Lucky he doesn't get sued

      • Jim
  • Moroboshi

    Oh Apple, for every step forward, you take one back.

  • Moroboshi

    Oh Apple, for every step forward, you take one back.

  • GMoney

    I feel allowing Frotz to install z5 games is setting a double standard here.. especially since there are many c64 games now in the PD - but current there is nothing stopping you from using a text game you did not buy in Frotz

    • Craig Smith

      Actually, Apple has refused updates of Frotz until I removed the ability to download new Z-machine games from the Internet. They were nice enough to leave the old version there in the meantime. The thus-crippled version is being reviewed right now.

      • GMoney

        This is not good. I was really hoping that Apple would allow this to "become the standard" and therefore allow C64 to do this as well.

        However I am sad to hear your updates were refused because of this and now, more crippleware thanks to Apple's approval process, is in the app store.

      • Jim

        Question to Craig: can I still copy games from my computer to Frotz in the upcoming update or is that gone too? I am sorry to hear that your marvelous app is being crippled. The last update was the bees knees. I have not taken Frotz off my phone since I got it last year.

      • Craig Smith

        Yes you still can, and files you already imported will be preserved.

      • Jim

        I guess it's not so bad then. I have been doing all my importing via FTP since the last update anyway. Still, strange that Apple only just noticed the web download feature (or only just changed their minds on the matter.)

    • TKO

      Oh, sorry to hear that Craig. Thanks for the heads-up though. I'll be sure to remain on the current version for as long as possible. I never use it for any in-depth adventuring (coz I'm a touch-typist, and the keyboard frustrates me) :) ..but I just love having all my old Infocom adventures with me to show them off to my friends who know what they are. As well as the great IF-Archive competition entries. (The Chicken compo especially.) :)

      It's an awesome app. Just a shame it comes into that grey area that Apple feels the need to enforce (which I understand, with respect to flash, etc.)

      • Craig Smith

        I you already have your own story files in Frotz, they will be preserved by the upgrade.
        Also, in lieu of allowing downloads, the new Frotz 1.3 bundles all English language Z-Code IF titles from IFDB that are rated 3 stars and higher with the app, and I plan release updated snapshots relatively often.

      • Craig Smith

        Yes, and files you already imported will be preserved.

      • Craig Smith

        Ignore the preceding comment; replied to wrong post.

  • GMoney

    I feel allowing Frotz to install z5 games is setting a double standard here.. especially since there are many c64 games now in the PD - but current there is nothing stopping you from using a text game you did not buy in Frotz

    • Craig Smith

      Actually, Apple has refused updates of Frotz until I removed the ability to download new Z-machine games from the Internet. They were nice enough to leave the old version there in the meantime. The thus-crippled version is being reviewed right now.

      • GMoney

        This is not good. I was really hoping that Apple would allow this to "become the standard" and therefore allow C64 to do this as well.

        However I am sad to hear your updates were refused because of this and now, more crippleware thanks to Apple's approval process, is in the app store.

      • Jim

        Question to Craig: can I still copy games from my computer to Frotz in the upcoming update or is that gone too? I am sorry to hear that your marvelous app is being crippled. The last update was the bees knees. I have not taken Frotz off my phone since I got it last year.

      • Craig Smith

        Yes you still can, and files you already imported will be preserved.

      • Jim

        I guess it's not so bad then. I have been doing all my importing via FTP since the last update anyway. Still, strange that Apple only just noticed the web download feature (or only just changed their minds on the matter.)

    • TKO

      Oh, sorry to hear that Craig. Thanks for the heads-up though. I'll be sure to remain on the current version for as long as possible. I never use it for any in-depth adventuring (coz I'm a touch-typist, and the keyboard frustrates me) :) ..but I just love having all my old Infocom adventures with me to show them off to my friends who know what they are. As well as the great IF-Archive competition entries. (The Chicken compo especially.) :)

      It's an awesome app. Just a shame it comes into that grey area that Apple feels the need to enforce (which I understand, with respect to flash, etc.)

      • Craig Smith

        I you already have your own story files in Frotz, they will be preserved by the upgrade.
        Also, in lieu of allowing downloads, the new Frotz 1.3 bundles all English language Z-Code IF titles from IFDB that are rated 3 stars and higher with the app, and I plan release updated snapshots relatively often.

      • Craig Smith

        Yes, and files you already imported will be preserved.

      • Craig Smith

        Ignore the preceding comment; replied to wrong post.

  • Anonymous

    Be honest... how many users were hoping to be able to download a bunch of "free" C64 game ROMs (not via the AppStore) and run it on the C64 emulator? I didn't think it was possible until some users figured a way around it.

  • Anonymous

    Be honest... how many users were hoping to be able to download a bunch of "free" C64 game ROMs (not via the AppStore) and run it on the C64 emulator? I didn't think it was possible until some users figured a way around it.

  • http://www.drafternoon.com mek

    so if we bought it for 5 bucks, do we have to buy it again when it is re-released

    • Anonymous

      Once you purchased it, it is yours and should not stop working. It won't upgrade unless you use the free upgrade button on iTunes. However, I will assume once the next version comes out and you perform the free upgrade, you will lose the BASIC feature.

      • http://www.iphonelife.com/werner.ruotsalainen Menneisyys

        Yeah, better to back up C:UsersusernameMusiciTunesMobile ApplicationsC64.ipa before it's overwritten ;)

  • http://www.drafternoon.com mek

    so if we bought it for 5 bucks, do we have to buy it again when it is re-released

    • Anonymous

      Once you purchased it, it is yours and should not stop working. It won't upgrade unless you use the free upgrade button on iTunes. However, I will assume once the next version comes out and you perform the free upgrade, you will lose the BASIC feature.

      • http://www.iphonelife.com/werner.ruotsalainen Menneisyys

        Yeah, better to back up C:\Users\username\Music\iTunes\Mobile Applications\C64.ipa before it's overwritten ;)

  • Randy

    One probable reason for Apple's insistence that Basic not be accessible within the app is the potential of a lawsuit from Microsoft, whose lawyers just love to find stuff like this. Commodore Basic was licensed from Microsoft for the Commodore branded machine ROM only. Microsoft still maintains their rights to the code. This could be a big legal mess. Don't blame Apple. Blame Bill's lawyers.

    • TKO

      That would be an issue between Microsoft and Manomio. Wouldn't affect Apple in the slightest.

      No reason Apple shouldn't be able to grant an exemption. This is their store, and they're entirely at liberty do decide what should go in it. The interpreter is harmless - arbitrary code cannot be loaded or saved - and, due to the way games were made for it, it can't be completely ripped out. Some games contained a bit of basic .. some games contained quite a lot. (I'd hope to see Slither or Tomb of Drewan, or even Wumpus Hunt some day, and those were 100% basic.)

      Ah .. I love the iPhone, but sometimes I just wanna hit the people that make these draconian rules.

  • Randy

    One probable reason for Apple's insistence that Basic not be accessible within the app is the potential of a lawsuit from Microsoft, whose lawyers just love to find stuff like this. Commodore Basic was licensed from Microsoft for the Commodore branded machine ROM only. Microsoft still maintains their rights to the code. This could be a big legal mess. Don't blame Apple. Blame Bill's lawyers.

    • TKO

      That would be an issue between Microsoft and Manomio. Wouldn't affect Apple in the slightest.

      No reason Apple shouldn't be able to grant an exemption. This is their store, and they're entirely at liberty do decide what should go in it. The interpreter is harmless - arbitrary code cannot be loaded or saved - and, due to the way games were made for it, it can't be completely ripped out. Some games contained a bit of basic .. some games contained quite a lot. (I'd hope to see Slither or Tomb of Drewan, or even Wumpus Hunt some day, and those were 100% basic.)

      Ah .. I love the iPhone, but sometimes I just wanna hit the people that make these draconian rules.

  • Max

    Please someone release a REAL commdore-emulator on cydia!!

    This mini-emulator with just a few licensed games is ridiculous. Every c64-fan has other favourite games.

  • Max

    Please someone release a REAL commdore-emulator on cydia!!

    This mini-emulator with just a few licensed games is ridiculous. Every c64-fan has other favourite games.

  • AnIphoneDev

    So lets get that right: If an independent developer creates a performant and working emulator it is forced to remove any possibility to use that or the app is blocked.

    But if Sega puts only a shit slow emulator together with a straight ROM (Golden Axe, Sonic), which breaks more than 1 point in the development contract for iPhone developers actually just to make this clear, then they are fine to go and even release further games with the same ROM emulator?

    Am I in the wrong world or has apple now daydreams about their right to stand above contracted rights and business equality?!

  • AnIphoneDev

    So lets get that right: If an independent developer creates a performant and working emulator it is forced to remove any possibility to use that or the app is blocked.

    But if Sega puts only a shit slow emulator together with a straight ROM (Golden Axe, Sonic), which breaks more than 1 point in the development contract for iPhone developers actually just to make this clear, then they are fine to go and even release further games with the same ROM emulator?

    Am I in the wrong world or has apple now daydreams about their right to stand above contracted rights and business equality?!

  • http://www.techtv101.com Techtv101.com

    Hopefully this will have a long life in the iphone catalog. Its great to see such a great machine running those 8 and 16 bit gfx lol

  • http://www.techtv101.com Techtv101.com

    Hopefully this will have a long life in the iphone catalog. Its great to see such a great machine running those 8 and 16 bit gfx lol

  • BushDoctor

    I think the main reason is for remove the basic is that is it a security hole. There are many ways to hack a system if there are an interpreter working inside. Some greatest features was in the c64 something that the original designers never wanted to access for a normal user. I think Apple simple fear the possibilities of a creative minds over there. And it not a fiction.

    • Craig Smith

      I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. An emulator is by definition completely sandboxed.
      No matter how creative you are, you aren't going to be able to get it to do anything the original hardware couldn't do. To believe that a master hacker could make the emulator break out and do something with native iPhone APIs is pure science fiction.

      The only possibility would be finding a buffer overflow exploit, which ANY app is vulnerable to. And I would wager that the software structure of most emulators would actually make them more immune from buffer overflows rather than less.

      • BushDoctor

        Craig, you are right in many aspects, but simple i can't find any other real reasons to Apple's fear about the BASIC in the emu. Do you ?

      • Craig Smith

        I think the assumption that there must be a good reason for them to fear BASIC is incorrect.
        Rather, they are trying to be as literal in interpreting the letter of the SDK contract as possible to avoid being construed as being inconsistent.
        It is very hard to craft a legal definition for precisely the kinds of things they wish to disallow without being over general and including other stuff. They are erring on the side of caution by excluding too much rather than accidentally letting something through that could damage their App Store revenue.

        Also, BASIC in C64 is only completely safe because it's running inside an emulator. A BASIC interpreter running natively actually could pose a danger, and it would be hard for Apple to justify the difference to a lay audience, so they choose to disallow it across the board.

  • BushDoctor

    I think the main reason is for remove the basic is that is it a security hole. There are many ways to hack a system if there are an interpreter working inside. Some greatest features was in the c64 something that the original designers never wanted to access for a normal user. I think Apple simple fear the possibilities of a creative minds over there. And it not a fiction.

    • Craig Smith

      I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. An emulator is by definition completely sandboxed.
      No matter how creative you are, you aren't going to be able to get it to do anything the original hardware couldn't do. To believe that a master hacker could make the emulator break out and do something with native iPhone APIs is pure science fiction.

      The only possibility would be finding a buffer overflow exploit, which ANY app is vulnerable to. And I would wager that the software structure of most emulators would actually make them more immune from buffer overflows rather than less.

      • BushDoctor

        Craig, you are right in many aspects, but simple i can't find any other real reasons to Apple's fear about the BASIC in the emu. Do you ?

      • Craig Smith

        I think the assumption that there must be a good reason for them to fear BASIC is incorrect.
        Rather, they are trying to be as literal in interpreting the letter of the SDK contract as possible to avoid being construed as being inconsistent.
        It is very hard to craft a legal definition for precisely the kinds of things they wish to disallow without being over general and including other stuff. They are erring on the side of caution by excluding too much rather than accidentally letting something through that could damage their App Store revenue.

        Also, BASIC in C64 is only completely safe because it's running inside an emulator. A BASIC interpreter running natively actually could pose a danger, and it would be hard for Apple to justify the difference to a lay audience, so they choose to disallow it across the board.