MMS_NewGamingExperience_iPhone3GS_r7_c2Since we first got word about the new iPhone 3GS at the WWDC keynote, we've all been wondering when we will be seeing the first 3GS-exclusive titles. We've seen a few games so far that have been optimized for the 3GS with fancy lighting, and even a few that take advantage of the compass. None of these games really provided much of a "Wow!" experience though, and basically just served as tech demos for some of the special effects found in the 3GS hardware. None have really pushed the hardware as far as it could go.

Mad Monkey Studios today announced they will be developing games exclusively for the iPhone 3GS, and released the following video benchmark demonstrating the performance difference between iPhone 3G and 3GS. It shouldn't come as a surprise that the 3GS mops the floor with the older iPhone hardware, but this raises the question of whether or not we're looking at a simple benchmark or a glimpse at their first 3GS-only game.

Their first game will be announced soon, and is said to include a "cutting edge 3D look never before seen on the iPhone." They also have "plans to use the shading capabilities to their full extent to create visually innovative games." Needless to say, we're going to be keeping a close eye on this project. It will be interesting to see the community reaction of this title, especially with the 40,000,000 iDevices in the wild which will quickly become obsolete for gamers if this trend catches on.

  • supakoopa

    I upgraded to an iPhone 3GS about a week ago, and I was impressed to find out how much better some games run, and how much less time it takes for them to load.

    • areg

      so what? todays technology is always better than yesterdays...

      • wegmans

        so it was worth upgrading

  • supakoopa

    I upgraded to an iPhone 3GS about a week ago, and I was impressed to find out how much better some games run, and how much less time it takes for them to load.

    • areg

      so what? todays technology is always better than yesterdays...

      • wegmans

        so it was worth upgrading

  • mohammed

    Is it me or does the 3G one look as good if not better

    • MinervaDreaming

      Well, depends on what you mean. It should technically LOOK exactly the same as they didn't mention using any of the 3GS features not on the 3G so as to keep it an apples-to-apples comparison; they're the same models in the same environment. The 3G's framerate is WAY slower. It is very choppy where the 3GS is very smooth.

    • jonathan

      The difference in this demonstration is performance, not looks. There could also be graphical differences, especially shaders, but for this it's showing frame rate and the 3G failed.

  • mohammed

    Is it me or does the 3G one look as good if not better

    • MinervaDreaming

      Well, depends on what you mean. It should technically LOOK exactly the same as they didn't mention using any of the 3GS features not on the 3G so as to keep it an apples-to-apples comparison; they're the same models in the same environment. The 3G's framerate is WAY slower. It is very choppy where the 3GS is very smooth.

    • jonathan

      The difference in this demonstration is performance, not looks. There could also be graphical differences, especially shaders, but for this it's showing frame rate and the 3G failed.

  • radchad1

    So, it begins with one developer then the next and the next and so on. The people that have iphone 3G which still has untapped power are being pushed aside for bigger hardware already. The iphone 3G is what 1 yr old? I guess developers are forgetting the millions of people that have iphone, iphone 3G and ipod touch. Bad move to only make games for a 3gs device.

    • Virtualball

      You're also neglecting the millions (I don't actually know the exact number) of 3GS users who aren't getting the full use out of their phones. Trust me, 3GS is a niche market when it comes to games, big devs like EA and Gameloft will not make games solely for the 3GS, and if they do? So be it. Why stop the progression of technology only to support old generations? Should there be no GPS apps because the 2G can't support it? No, that's just ridiculous.

      • radchad1

        So when apple releases a new iphone next year and the year after that are you going to get it? When hardware manufacturers make systems they don't release one every damn year. The ipod touch will be out in September and will have a faster processor than 3gs. The following year apple will release another iphone 4g then following year iphone 4gs with ipod touches being thrown in. Get the most of hardware before you constantly update to a new generation.

    • http://www.mavisxp.com mavis

      Actually, the SOC in the iPhone 3G is more than two years old now (the 3G used the same CPU and GPU as the original iPhone, IIRC) so it's quite dated. I would expect next year's iPhone (or 2011) to get another substantial speed bump - dual core, etc - so I expect this will happen all over again. I suggest getting used to it ... ;)

      • spiffyone

        As this is a game centric site, I'll go with a gamer centric POV:

        There are various good reasons for the ~5 year life cycle employed by video game home console and portable game system manufacturers (MS, Nintendo, and Sony with the former, Nintendo and Sony with the latter). One is to maximize the userbase as much as possible, the other to extend the revenue generation from the technology (as manufacturing prices fall, etc.). For devs, it allows them to maximize as much as possible hardware that is "set" for a half decade or so, therefore concentrating more on game design and less on tech (as they become comfortable with hardware, they get more out of it, so they focus less on that and more on simply designing games).

        Contrast that with PC development, and, now, mobile development. The drastic changeover in tech in PCs year in year out has led to more devs going with the more stable home console dev paradigm, and as far as mobile is concerned, the bi-yearly changeover to wholly upgraded true next gen specs goes against the sort of business model employed in other sectors that has proved quite lucrative.

        What I'm getting at is this: Apple probably would've been better served waiting a year or so to add in the new CPU and GPU and doubling the RAM. That said, once the 3Gs based touch hits, I'm in line to buy one.

  • radchad1

    So, it begins with one developer then the next and the next and so on. The people that have iphone 3G which still has untapped power are being pushed aside for bigger hardware already. The iphone 3G is what 1 yr old? I guess developers are forgetting the millions of people that have iphone, iphone 3G and ipod touch. Bad move to only make games for a 3gs device.

    • Virtualball

      You're also neglecting the millions (I don't actually know the exact number) of 3GS users who aren't getting the full use out of their phones. Trust me, 3GS is a niche market when it comes to games, big devs like EA and Gameloft will not make games solely for the 3GS, and if they do? So be it. Why stop the progression of technology only to support old generations? Should there be no GPS apps because the 2G can't support it? No, that's just ridiculous.

      • radchad1

        So when apple releases a new iphone next year and the year after that are you going to get it? When hardware manufacturers make systems they don't release one every damn year. The ipod touch will be out in September and will have a faster processor than 3gs. The following year apple will release another iphone 4g then following year iphone 4gs with ipod touches being thrown in. Get the most of hardware before you constantly update to a new generation.

    • http://www.mavisxp.com mavis

      Actually, the SOC in the iPhone 3G is more than two years old now (the 3G used the same CPU and GPU as the original iPhone, IIRC) so it's quite dated. I would expect next year's iPhone (or 2011) to get another substantial speed bump - dual core, etc - so I expect this will happen all over again. I suggest getting used to it ... ;)

      • spiffyone

        As this is a game centric site, I'll go with a gamer centric POV:

        There are various good reasons for the ~5 year life cycle employed by video game home console and portable game system manufacturers (MS, Nintendo, and Sony with the former, Nintendo and Sony with the latter). One is to maximize the userbase as much as possible, the other to extend the revenue generation from the technology (as manufacturing prices fall, etc.). For devs, it allows them to maximize as much as possible hardware that is "set" for a half decade or so, therefore concentrating more on game design and less on tech (as they become comfortable with hardware, they get more out of it, so they focus less on that and more on simply designing games).

        Contrast that with PC development, and, now, mobile development. The drastic changeover in tech in PCs year in year out has led to more devs going with the more stable home console dev paradigm, and as far as mobile is concerned, the bi-yearly changeover to wholly upgraded true next gen specs goes against the sort of business model employed in other sectors that has proved quite lucrative.

        What I'm getting at is this: Apple probably would've been better served waiting a year or so to add in the new CPU and GPU and doubling the RAM. That said, once the 3Gs based touch hits, I'm in line to buy one.

  • Dominic White

    @mohammed - they're both rendering the exact same image, as this is a benchmark. They will look identical. The difference is the framerate, and what we're seeing here is that in the space it takes a 3G to render one frame, the 3GS can render four, so you could (I know this isn't scientific) output easily twice the graphical quality on the 3GS AND still be twice as smooth.

  • Dominic White

    @mohammed - they're both rendering the exact same image, as this is a benchmark. They will look identical. The difference is the framerate, and what we're seeing here is that in the space it takes a 3G to render one frame, the 3GS can render four, so you could (I know this isn't scientific) output easily twice the graphical quality on the 3GS AND still be twice as smooth.

  • mark

    I think Mad monkey studios are missing a large audience for thier work as the touch crowd have just been ignored, and as there are as many touches out there as Iphones I think the marked just reduced by atleast 50%. I'm sure the US is split 50/50... Hence the recent back peddling on the implimentation of using the 3.0 software upgrade.

    I personally know more people with the touch than the phone in the UK.
    I have the touch and will not be upgrading hardware anytime soon due to the price point.
    Even if a new touch came out tomorrow most would not follow as like me I was planning on keeping my touch for more than a year.

    • Eli Hodapp

      Something to think about though, while yes, it's impossible to argue that the 3GS market is a fraction of the existing iDevice market, if they manage to release an AMAZING 3GS-only experience... It will sell like hot cakes. Sure, Dark Raider and the other games have fancy lighting, but this will be the first real 3GS-only experience that does more than take an existing game and pastes some GPU effects on top of it, making the game in essence a "3GS launch title" for lack of a better way to put it.

      I could be wrong, but I think 3GS owning gamers will gobble this up. I don't think I'm alone in being more than willing to flip out a couple bucks to really see what my phone is capable of when it flexes its 3D muscles.

      • SalsaMD

        Amen

      • spiffyone

        While possibly true, Eli, we have to keep these facts:

        The majority of iPhone owners (and iTouch owners) do NOT buy games. There's a sizable minority that do, but they are not the majority of the userbase. This minority is large enough to where game apps are the single largest individual percentage of sales in the App Store...but even then game apps themselves do not make up the majority of app sales...only a sizable minority percentage.

        Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, it has been suggested in reports that the consumer base of App Store gamers is actually made up a larger number of iPod touch owners than iPhone owners. So there's a larger contingent of game consumers who own iTouch devices than iPhone devices (possibly due to the former skewing younger than the latter).

        As such is the case, focusing primarily or even, as is the case, exclusively on 3Gs owners with all new, exclusive developments may be a foolhardy venture. Granted, you'll have that userbase to yourself...but it's not that sizable a base considering a small percentage of that base is made up of game consumers.

    • brüno

      when their 1st game released, there will be a new ipod with similar specs.

    • Rozz

      Yeah there will be a new ipod touch and quite possibly a larger screen "tablet style" device as well this fall.

      Sucks to be left behind, but remember it takes many months to develop a game so it's not like current non-GS devices are obsolete today, it probably won't be until 2010 that you really start to see a lot of 3GS only games.

      • mark

        Yes I agree but I feel that developers will start to re-develop for the larger market when they see 75% of the market not buy the high spec games.
        I agree that it's good news in the long run but, phones are replaced every year as contract run out.. But touches are kept forever, as long as the touch is also part of the market I feel this market is limited.
        I hope to get a phone in a couple of years but for now I'm waiting for them to stop upgrading yearly before I pay the tarrifs for one.

  • mark

    I think Mad monkey studios are missing a large audience for thier work as the touch crowd have just been ignored, and as there are as many touches out there as Iphones I think the marked just reduced by atleast 50%. I'm sure the US is split 50/50... Hence the recent back peddling on the implimentation of using the 3.0 software upgrade.

    I personally know more people with the touch than the phone in the UK.
    I have the touch and will not be upgrading hardware anytime soon due to the price point.
    Even if a new touch came out tomorrow most would not follow as like me I was planning on keeping my touch for more than a year.

    • Eli Hodapp

      Something to think about though, while yes, it's impossible to argue that the 3GS market is a fraction of the existing iDevice market, if they manage to release an AMAZING 3GS-only experience... It will sell like hot cakes. Sure, Dark Raider and the other games have fancy lighting, but this will be the first real 3GS-only experience that does more than take an existing game and pastes some GPU effects on top of it, making the game in essence a "3GS launch title" for lack of a better way to put it.

      I could be wrong, but I think 3GS owning gamers will gobble this up. I don't think I'm alone in being more than willing to flip out a couple bucks to really see what my phone is capable of when it flexes its 3D muscles.

      • SalsaMD

        Amen

      • spiffyone

        While possibly true, Eli, we have to keep these facts:

        The majority of iPhone owners (and iTouch owners) do NOT buy games. There's a sizable minority that do, but they are not the majority of the userbase. This minority is large enough to where game apps are the single largest individual percentage of sales in the App Store...but even then game apps themselves do not make up the majority of app sales...only a sizable minority percentage.

        Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, it has been suggested in reports that the consumer base of App Store gamers is actually made up a larger number of iPod touch owners than iPhone owners. So there's a larger contingent of game consumers who own iTouch devices than iPhone devices (possibly due to the former skewing younger than the latter).

        As such is the case, focusing primarily or even, as is the case, exclusively on 3Gs owners with all new, exclusive developments may be a foolhardy venture. Granted, you'll have that userbase to yourself...but it's not that sizable a base considering a small percentage of that base is made up of game consumers.

    • brüno

      when their 1st game released, there will be a new ipod with similar specs.

    • Rozz

      Yeah there will be a new ipod touch and quite possibly a larger screen "tablet style" device as well this fall.

      Sucks to be left behind, but remember it takes many months to develop a game so it's not like current non-GS devices are obsolete today, it probably won't be until 2010 that you really start to see a lot of 3GS only games.

      • mark

        Yes I agree but I feel that developers will start to re-develop for the larger market when they see 75% of the market not buy the high spec games.
        I agree that it's good news in the long run but, phones are replaced every year as contract run out.. But touches are kept forever, as long as the touch is also part of the market I feel this market is limited.
        I hope to get a phone in a couple of years but for now I'm waiting for them to stop upgrading yearly before I pay the tarrifs for one.

  • Noah

    The new iPod touch with upgrades graphics will be out very soon. They aren't missing their market.

    • spiffyone

      True. I still think it's a bit too early to focus exclusively on it right now, for any dev, but sooner or later the 3Gs spec devices will be the de facto standard.

  • Noah

    The new iPod touch with upgrades graphics will be out very soon. They aren't missing their market.

    • spiffyone

      True. I still think it's a bit too early to focus exclusively on it right now, for any dev, but sooner or later the 3Gs spec devices will be the de facto standard.

  • George

    Some of you guys need to chill out. Obviously most developers are going to continue making games for the largest userbase (iPhone, 3G, Ipod Touch), but developers have every right to develop advanced games for 3GS adopters. They are purposely going after a currently niche market, and I find it exciting to be able to play titles that will take advantage of the advanced hardware in the 3GS.

  • George

    Some of you guys need to chill out. Obviously most developers are going to continue making games for the largest userbase (iPhone, 3G, Ipod Touch), but developers have every right to develop advanced games for 3GS adopters. They are purposely going after a currently niche market, and I find it exciting to be able to play titles that will take advantage of the advanced hardware in the 3GS.

  • HipHopTouch

    Finally, I want to see what this thing can do.

    As for the naysayers, I think you are just anxious. The developers will never axe all devices to support 3GS only... "You gotsta chill"

    • RNF

      Yeah, chill or upgrade to the 3GS! :)

  • HipHopTouch

    Finally, I want to see what this thing can do.

    As for the naysayers, I think you are just anxious. The developers will never axe all devices to support 3GS only... "You gotsta chill"

    • RNF

      Yeah, chill or upgrade to the 3GS! :)

  • ltcommander.data

    I don't see anything wrong with a developer concentrating on making iPhone 3G S games. Being iPhone 3G S exclusive may reduce the overall market, but saves development time which may yield a better gameplay experience or reduce development costs. They would also have the advantage of not having to get lost among the millions of iPhone apps. Instead, in the near term, most iPhone 3G S users, of which there are a few million already, which is not insubstantial, would certainly give an iPhone 3G S exclusive game the benefit of the doubt, since they are still a rarity.

    Admittedly, it'd be better for developers to take advantage of the iPhone 3G S's power while still supporting older models. I'm not even talking about spending extra time writing a separate OpenGL ES 2.0 code path. When run on the iPhone 3G S, a unified OpenGL ES 1.1 game could have increased draw distance, more NPCs, denser foliage, devote the extra CPU power for additional AI or physics calculations, etc. This doesn't even require extra or higher quality textures, just show more of them. This scaling can also happen to a lesser extent on the 2nd gen iPod Touch. Using the stronger hardware to hit higher fps is good, but I'd rather use the power for better effects while still remaining playable. This type of draw distance/NPC scaling seems particularly ideal for 3D sandbox world type games like Gangster. It'd be interesting if Gameloft plans to do this.

    • Eli Hodapp

      While I obviously can't say anything for sure about device scaling in Gangstar, one thing I feel I can confidently say is that Gameloft will likely always support all the older devices. When we met with their CEO at WWDC that was one of the main themes of the whole interview. As a company, the reason Gameloft has done as well as they have is because they have games for you whether you have a Razr only capable of running J2ME or an iPhone 3GS capable of advanced 3D graphics. Scaling and porting between devices is what Gameloft does best. ;)

  • ltcommander.data

    I don't see anything wrong with a developer concentrating on making iPhone 3G S games. Being iPhone 3G S exclusive may reduce the overall market, but saves development time which may yield a better gameplay experience or reduce development costs. They would also have the advantage of not having to get lost among the millions of iPhone apps. Instead, in the near term, most iPhone 3G S users, of which there are a few million already, which is not insubstantial, would certainly give an iPhone 3G S exclusive game the benefit of the doubt, since they are still a rarity.

    Admittedly, it'd be better for developers to take advantage of the iPhone 3G S's power while still supporting older models. I'm not even talking about spending extra time writing a separate OpenGL ES 2.0 code path. When run on the iPhone 3G S, a unified OpenGL ES 1.1 game could have increased draw distance, more NPCs, denser foliage, devote the extra CPU power for additional AI or physics calculations, etc. This doesn't even require extra or higher quality textures, just show more of them. This scaling can also happen to a lesser extent on the 2nd gen iPod Touch. Using the stronger hardware to hit higher fps is good, but I'd rather use the power for better effects while still remaining playable. This type of draw distance/NPC scaling seems particularly ideal for 3D sandbox world type games like Gangster. It'd be interesting if Gameloft plans to do this.

    • Eli Hodapp

      While I obviously can't say anything for sure about device scaling in Gangstar, one thing I feel I can confidently say is that Gameloft will likely always support all the older devices. When we met with their CEO at WWDC that was one of the main themes of the whole interview. As a company, the reason Gameloft has done as well as they have is because they have games for you whether you have a Razr only capable of running J2ME or an iPhone 3GS capable of advanced 3D graphics. Scaling and porting between devices is what Gameloft does best. ;)

  • Stephen

    I'm really excited for this. I have a 3GS and plan on getting the ne iPhone next year as well. This is exciting for 3GS users!

    • radchad1

      So you enjoy having to get something new every year? Would you want to do that on an xbox or psp or sony system? How about if Sony made another new movie player to replace blu-ray? Get the most of something before a new one is made is the point I'm trying to get across. I don't want to see all developers starting to jump ship and only support 3gs.

      • bob

        chill ramstadt, don't be so grumpy!

        if somebody wants to spend money on a phone every year, let it be. does it really matter? in tech, every year a new model comes; and? anyone surprised? your brand new thing will be obsolete next year.

      • spiffyone

        Bob, the point chad is getting across (or trying to) is that there are markets where new models are introduced each year, yes, but not new generations of tech. And by "gens" I'm using the gamer vernacular, not Apple's "gens = revisions" (example: iPhone to iPhone 3G). Think Nintendo or Sony's "gens = all new next gen successor" (Playstation to Playstation 2 to Playstation 3 constitute new "gens", Playstation 2 to PS2 Slim is simply a revision of an existing model; under this usage, iPhone to iPhone 3G = revision, iPhone 3G to 3Gs = true next gen upgrade).

        Anyway, the video game home console and portable game system markets operate on ~5 year life cycles for a product BEFORE a new, true next gen successor is released to market. Contrast that with 3Gs. It's been two years. But, yet again, that just shows how the iPhone/touch is NOT a portable game system in competition with DS or PSP, but a mobile platform in competition with the Nokia's, Androids, BREWs, and Windows Mobile (which will come to include ZuneHD) of the world.

  • Stephen

    I'm really excited for this. I have a 3GS and plan on getting the ne iPhone next year as well. This is exciting for 3GS users!

    • radchad1

      So you enjoy having to get something new every year? Would you want to do that on an xbox or psp or sony system? How about if Sony made another new movie player to replace blu-ray? Get the most of something before a new one is made is the point I'm trying to get across. I don't want to see all developers starting to jump ship and only support 3gs.

      • bob

        chill ramstadt, don't be so grumpy!

        if somebody wants to spend money on a phone every year, let it be. does it really matter? in tech, every year a new model comes; and? anyone surprised? your brand new thing will be obsolete next year.

      • spiffyone

        Bob, the point chad is getting across (or trying to) is that there are markets where new models are introduced each year, yes, but not new generations of tech. And by "gens" I'm using the gamer vernacular, not Apple's "gens = revisions" (example: iPhone to iPhone 3G). Think Nintendo or Sony's "gens = all new next gen successor" (Playstation to Playstation 2 to Playstation 3 constitute new "gens", Playstation 2 to PS2 Slim is simply a revision of an existing model; under this usage, iPhone to iPhone 3G = revision, iPhone 3G to 3Gs = true next gen upgrade).

        Anyway, the video game home console and portable game system markets operate on ~5 year life cycles for a product BEFORE a new, true next gen successor is released to market. Contrast that with 3Gs. It's been two years. But, yet again, that just shows how the iPhone/touch is NOT a portable game system in competition with DS or PSP, but a mobile platform in competition with the Nokia's, Androids, BREWs, and Windows Mobile (which will come to include ZuneHD) of the world.

  • chimpre

    Its not hard to have different enumerations for different devices. That is probably what they are going to do. Same game code, different renderer.

  • chimpre

    Its not hard to have different enumerations for different devices. That is probably what they are going to do. Same game code, different renderer.

  • Josh

    @radchad1 Yea, that ain't happening. Apple has ONE phone, they are rereleasing every year unless that changes, which I don't think it will (maybe a non-AT&T, but that would be same phone in essence)

    Thing is, I really doubt next years is a markedly improved SPEED wise phone. That was this years. Next will focus on other things. I dunno what, but I'm thinking they're gonna shake the design of it up somewhat, they usually don't keep the same look long. Regardless, this is the 3G*S*... the next won't be 4G*S*, it'll be 4G (or whatever) It'll have roughly the same speed (more like jumps that we've made so far) or maybe extra that makes up for new features or something. There won't be new tech in the hardware that adds capability like the shaders, and there won't be such a dramatic increase.

    But yea, I'll get next years too. I sold last years phone for the same price as my upgrade. Free 3GS!

    • Goulash

      huh? imac looks like that for ages. their mac-pro case has not changed for 8 years...

    • mark

      I'm not convinced that the next gen of Iphone will not be more powerful, as Iphone has other phone competion, I suspect that the next phone will be better as will the next.
      I can see there being further improvements over the 3GS.. That will hit the 3GS eventually.

  • Josh

    @radchad1 Yea, that ain't happening. Apple has ONE phone, they are rereleasing every year unless that changes, which I don't think it will (maybe a non-AT&T, but that would be same phone in essence)

    Thing is, I really doubt next years is a markedly improved SPEED wise phone. That was this years. Next will focus on other things. I dunno what, but I'm thinking they're gonna shake the design of it up somewhat, they usually don't keep the same look long. Regardless, this is the 3G*S*... the next won't be 4G*S*, it'll be 4G (or whatever) It'll have roughly the same speed (more like jumps that we've made so far) or maybe extra that makes up for new features or something. There won't be new tech in the hardware that adds capability like the shaders, and there won't be such a dramatic increase.

    But yea, I'll get next years too. I sold last years phone for the same price as my upgrade. Free 3GS!

    • Goulash

      huh? imac looks like that for ages. their mac-pro case has not changed for 8 years...

    • mark

      I'm not convinced that the next gen of Iphone will not be more powerful, as Iphone has other phone competion, I suspect that the next phone will be better as will the next.
      I can see there being further improvements over the 3GS.. That will hit the 3GS eventually.

  • oneWAYup7

    I have an iPhone 1G and i applaud developers who take risks with the new hardware on the 3GS. iPhone and iPhone 3G users have plenty of applications and games to choose from right now, and it will continue to be like that for at least 1 more year so i don't see what the big deal here is.

  • oneWAYup7

    I have an iPhone 1G and i applaud developers who take risks with the new hardware on the 3GS. iPhone and iPhone 3G users have plenty of applications and games to choose from right now, and it will continue to be like that for at least 1 more year so i don't see what the big deal here is.

  • danny

    one indie dev decides to do 3gs and u all flip out. who cares? they're not gonna stop making games for 3g. get a grip non 3gs users

  • danny

    one indie dev decides to do 3gs and u all flip out. who cares? they're not gonna stop making games for 3g. get a grip non 3gs users

  • Darwiniandude

    Here in Australia, we can buy iPhones outright and unlocked, or on contract from 5 different carriers, or on contract over 12 or 24 months, usually with no upfront handset fee.

    Anyway, the point is that I spend less time on the computer. With 12 months contracts and selling last years phone on eBay for a stupid amount because people pay too much for secondhand Apple gear. I will always have the current phone, and I want some games that take advantage of the hardware.

    Games are FUN on the 3GS that are choppy and jumpy on the 3G.

  • Darwiniandude

    Here in Australia, we can buy iPhones outright and unlocked, or on contract from 5 different carriers, or on contract over 12 or 24 months, usually with no upfront handset fee.

    Anyway, the point is that I spend less time on the computer. With 12 months contracts and selling last years phone on eBay for a stupid amount because people pay too much for secondhand Apple gear. I will always have the current phone, and I want some games that take advantage of the hardware.

    Games are FUN on the 3GS that are choppy and jumpy on the 3G.

  • http://www.yourpersonalrobot.com your personal robot

    +1
    There are 4 technical gadgets in my life, on which I like to spend money on, because I use them permanently. And so, I really want to have the best fun.
    Macbook, projector, a small sound system and the iPhone. So if it's possible for me, I get the current model. And the step from 3G to 3GS was well worth it!
    So if next year arguments convince me, I don't have a problem spending some money on the next effing awesome all-in-one machine ;) Life is good :)

  • http://www.yourpersonalrobot.com your personal robot

    +1
    There are 4 technical gadgets in my life, on which I like to spend money on, because I use them permanently. And so, I really want to have the best fun.
    Macbook, projector, a small sound system and the iPhone. So if it\'s possible for me, I get the current model. And the step from 3G to 3GS was well worth it!
    So if next year arguments convince me, I don\'t have a problem spending some money on the next effing awesome all-in-one machine ;) Life is good :)

  • acidbottle

    as the devices get more complex, the teams needed to make the software need to be bigger, development costs increase and this is passed onto the end user ofc.

    furthermore, apple will release updated models each year so the games will technically, in many cases, be behind the technology as pumpin out console quality game can take many months.

    in short, whatever ya got .. enjoy it til ya get an upgrade. i certainly aint in no rush to get a 3GS.

  • acidbottle

    as the devices get more complex, the teams needed to make the software need to be bigger, development costs increase and this is passed onto the end user ofc.

    furthermore, apple will release updated models each year so the games will technically, in many cases, be behind the technology as pumpin out console quality game can take many months.

    in short, whatever ya got .. enjoy it til ya get an upgrade. i certainly aint in no rush to get a 3GS.

  • http://www.hbdia.com IzzyNobre

    As an iPhone 3GS owner, I hope they wait a little longer before capitalizing on 3GS-exclusive titles. They will alienate a big segment of the market, which in turn will erode some of the confidence iDevice users have on the gadget as a gaming machine. Who really wants to buy a new console every year? Even portable consoles have a longer lifecycle.

    I'm all for technologic advances and as a big time nerd I tend to buy the shiny new devices in the launch week if not day. But the iPhone/iPod touch gaming scene needs legitimizing, and this is a step in the wrong direction IMHO.

  • http://www.hbdia.com IzzyNobre

    As an iPhone 3GS owner, I hope they wait a little longer before capitalizing on 3GS-exclusive titles. They will alienate a big segment of the market, which in turn will erode some of the confidence iDevice users have on the gadget as a gaming machine. Who really wants to buy a new console every year? Even portable consoles have a longer lifecycle.

    I'm all for technologic advances and as a big time nerd I tend to buy the shiny new devices in the launch week if not day. But the iPhone/iPod touch gaming scene needs legitimizing, and this is a step in the wrong direction IMHO.

  • kyletrail

    Really stupid idea here. Why make your games for just one type? Bad bandwagon to jump.

  • kyletrail

    Really stupid idea here. Why make your games for just one type? Bad bandwagon to jump.

  • Mark

    Why do they always have to use an iPhone 3G against the 3GS? The iPod Touch 2G is faster!

  • Mark

    Why do they always have to use an iPhone 3G against the 3GS? The iPod Touch 2G is faster!

  • musik26

    I hope that the developers will remember that GAMEPLAY is the most important thing. Look at those NDS games, the graphics are no good when comparing to PSP games, but are PSP games beating NDS games? No. Nintendo knows the secret of gaming industry, and that is good and fun game play.

  • musik26

    I hope that the developers will remember that GAMEPLAY is the most important thing. Look at those NDS games, the graphics are no good when comparing to PSP games, but are PSP games beating NDS games? No. Nintendo knows the secret of gaming industry, and that is good and fun game play.

  • Maelick

    From aprogrammer standpoint I gotta agree that everyone just needs to calm down. You would have to be a fool to spend your hours on a release for a smaller market. Maybe a niche market specifically targetted at just 3gs users but it would take quite a while for me to consider it as financially feasible. After all were forgetting the golden rule here  its all about money 

  • Maelick

    From aprogrammer standpoint I gotta agree that everyone just needs to calm down. You would have to be a fool to spend your hours on a release for a smaller market. Maybe a niche market specifically targetted at just 3gs users but it would take quite a while for me to consider it as financially feasible. After all were forgetting the golden rule here  its all about money 

  • Chris

    It's foolish to divide the iPod touch and iPhone user base. Apps should be developed with gen 1 devices in mind and scaled up to take advantage of new technology. As long as the OS stays the same, similar to developing pc games. Crysis excluded....that demo looked and ran like crap on my dual core 2.3ghz MacBook pro.

  • Chris

    It's foolish to divide the iPod touch and iPhone user base. Apps should be developed with gen 1 devices in mind and scaled up to take advantage of new technology. As long as the OS stays the same, similar to developing pc games. Crysis excluded....that demo looked and ran like crap on my dual core 2.3ghz MacBook pro.

  • nineties

    it looks like their code is just unoptimized

    nothing there that couldnt be done on a regular 2G

  • nineties

    it looks like their code is just unoptimized

    nothing there that couldnt be done on a regular 2G

  • Esqalade

    Let's cut to the chase here. Those of you who are against the 3GS exclusive titles don't have a 3GS and those who are for it do. In the end we are humans (most of us anyway) and we look out for number one. I have a 3GS so I am obviosuly for it. And if I didn't I wouldn't be worried that a small devloper is making one exclusive title (realize that it may backfire and this whole plan ends) It doesn't exactly spell the end of the App store for 3G users does it?? If anything it is a marekting ploy to get first adopters to buy their game. If it makes you feel better 3G users I am much more likely to buy yet another Gameloft title than this exclusive title.

    And no we should never stifle technology for people who refuse to pay for it. If we did we would all being playing Pong right now.

    • mark

      True sentiment. I have the touch and hence am on the other side of the fence. I just feel that the Iphone users are going to adopt each year as contracts renew but that IPOD owners will not as the touch is a more long term investment as there is no automatic yearly free renewal. My touch cost me £260 I'm in no rush to replace it this decade (2 years).
      My concern is that apple will segment thier own market if not careful Itune will need two camps the touch and then Iphone seperate as the yearly phone jumps keep on coming. Just because you can improve a device it isn't alway the best marketing decission. Nintendo scrapped the DS replacement before release as it would kill thier market stability.
      This could lead to a bigger "them and us" situation followed by people stopping buying hardware to wait for the next one incase they get left behind.
      Market stability is very important thats how apple have grown through steadily and compatability.
      But this isn't a fashion show its more practical than that, Fades come and go heres hoping the Ipod/Iphone will stand the tests of time.
      [DOOM AND GLOOM OVER, I'm now stepping of my soap box :)]

      • spiffyone

        My feeling is, however, that Apple doesn't need to play the game of releasing an all new, true next gen iPhone every two years (again, gamer vernacular, not Apple's usage of the term, so "gen" = BIG tech upgrade, not Apple's yearly "gen" = slight revision).

        A lot of what iPhone users hated about the iPhone have been solved via software (namely, OS 3.0). Hell, a lot of iPhone owners don't even have any idea of the CPU/GPU upgrade in 3Gs. And Apple's costs have risen on the manufacturing side. And they're still supporting the older model by selling it at $99...so expect the 3G to keep increasing in sales.

        It would be better, business wise, if they had simply concentrated on 3G for another year or so, and THEN release 3Gs. But that's only my opinion, of course. There's a lot to be said for the longer life cycles employed by the Nintendo's of the world.

  • Esqalade

    Let's cut to the chase here. Those of you who are against the 3GS exclusive titles don't have a 3GS and those who are for it do. In the end we are humans (most of us anyway) and we look out for number one. I have a 3GS so I am obviosuly for it. And if I didn't I wouldn't be worried that a small devloper is making one exclusive title (realize that it may backfire and this whole plan ends) It doesn't exactly spell the end of the App store for 3G users does it?? If anything it is a marekting ploy to get first adopters to buy their game. If it makes you feel better 3G users I am much more likely to buy yet another Gameloft title than this exclusive title.

    And no we should never stifle technology for people who refuse to pay for it. If we did we would all being playing Pong right now.

    • mark

      True sentiment. I have the touch and hence am on the other side of the fence. I just feel that the Iphone users are going to adopt each year as contracts renew but that IPOD owners will not as the touch is a more long term investment as there is no automatic yearly free renewal. My touch cost me £260 I'm in no rush to replace it this decade (2 years).
      My concern is that apple will segment thier own market if not careful Itune will need two camps the touch and then Iphone seperate as the yearly phone jumps keep on coming. Just because you can improve a device it isn't alway the best marketing decission. Nintendo scrapped the DS replacement before release as it would kill thier market stability.
      This could lead to a bigger "them and us" situation followed by people stopping buying hardware to wait for the next one incase they get left behind.
      Market stability is very important thats how apple have grown through steadily and compatability.
      But this isn't a fashion show its more practical than that, Fades come and go heres hoping the Ipod/Iphone will stand the tests of time.
      [DOOM AND GLOOM OVER, I'm now stepping of my soap box :)]

      • spiffyone

        My feeling is, however, that Apple doesn't need to play the game of releasing an all new, true next gen iPhone every two years (again, gamer vernacular, not Apple's usage of the term, so "gen" = BIG tech upgrade, not Apple's yearly "gen" = slight revision).

        A lot of what iPhone users hated about the iPhone have been solved via software (namely, OS 3.0). Hell, a lot of iPhone owners don't even have any idea of the CPU/GPU upgrade in 3Gs. And Apple's costs have risen on the manufacturing side. And they're still supporting the older model by selling it at $99...so expect the 3G to keep increasing in sales.

        It would be better, business wise, if they had simply concentrated on 3G for another year or so, and THEN release 3Gs. But that's only my opinion, of course. There's a lot to be said for the longer life cycles employed by the Nintendo's of the world.

  • lukeb

    Wouldn't it be ironic if the gaming masses ran put and signed up for 3GS', only to find out this fall that 3rd gen ipod touch's were released with CPU's that are 100mhz faster, and then developers started tweaking their games to run best on those models, with the 3GS iPhone owners complaining that their taps don't register as well, etc. See how absurd it all is?

    The single biggest reason all developers should develop for 1st gen models, with 3GS enhanced version made available, is that many iphone owners are bound by contract to their current models.

    Someone said above that if people stifled technology by refusing to pay for it, we'd "all still be playing pong." If we had had to sign two-tear contracts to play pong, we might not now be so far along...

    • mark

      Nice comment, I agree you need to feel that your investment in the product was worth it. Thats how luxurty good work.
      If your left behind before you start you may well feel that you have wasted your investment.

      You can not stop progress but you can make things feel better for your customers. Itunes should have a statement that any app' released should be supported by atleast 75% of the models (either through auto scaling or turn on/off options,) on all equipment out there in use (as registered by Itune). AS 3GS isn't the end of this updating story I'm sure, todays leaders will be tomorrows followers.
      On a lighter note, I'm sure that 90% of developers will develope for the entire market as the best games so far have generally been the smaller more efficient games.

      • mark

        sorry for the typo's (I can spell honest)...

      • spiffyone

        IMHO, it simply would be better if Apple took a lesson from the Nintendo's of the world. Yes, of course the iPhone/touch, as a mobile platform, isn't in the video game portable system market and therefore not in direct competition with DS, but lessons can still be learned. Nintendo makes bank on DS from day one, and by having a ~5 year life cycle for their portable game systems (including the Game Boy line before it) they keep rolling in profit while costs lower over time.

        This keeps them price competitive, increasing their consumer base, which in term increasing developer support, which, again, helps increase the consumer base. And at about the half way mark of the life cycle (so about 2.5 years in) they start to develop the true next gen successor, but they don't release it until the 5 years or so are done, because historically at that time the increases of the consumer base start to slow down, but also because they can repeat the cycle with the new hardware, which, because it would have been designed 2 years or so BEFORE release, will have fallen in manufacturing costs by time of release. And again, from day one, Nintendo makes money off of hardware because they keep costs down.

        Apple could learn from that sort of thing, IMHO.

    • lukeb

      If devs want to do 3GS exclusives then l say let them ride that strategy out and see how far it takes them. I think it would be foolish to not offer versions of the same games without pixel shaders to owners of current gen models, but what do I know?

  • lukeb

    Wouldn't it be ironic if the gaming masses ran put and signed up for 3GS', only to find out this fall that 3rd gen ipod touch's were released with CPU's that are 100mhz faster, and then developers started tweaking their games to run best on those models, with the 3GS iPhone owners complaining that their taps don't register as well, etc. See how absurd it all is?

    The single biggest reason all developers should develop for 1st gen models, with 3GS enhanced version made available, is that many iphone owners are bound by contract to their current models.

    Someone said above that if people stifled technology by refusing to pay for it, we'd "all still be playing pong." If we had had to sign two-tear contracts to play pong, we might not now be so far along...

    • mark

      Nice comment, I agree you need to feel that your investment in the product was worth it. Thats how luxurty good work.
      If your left behind before you start you may well feel that you have wasted your investment.

      You can not stop progress but you can make things feel better for your customers. Itunes should have a statement that any app' released should be supported by atleast 75% of the models (either through auto scaling or turn on/off options,) on all equipment out there in use (as registered by Itune). AS 3GS isn't the end of this updating story I'm sure, todays leaders will be tomorrows followers.
      On a lighter note, I'm sure that 90% of developers will develope for the entire market as the best games so far have generally been the smaller more efficient games.

      • mark

        sorry for the typo's (I can spell honest)...

      • spiffyone

        IMHO, it simply would be better if Apple took a lesson from the Nintendo's of the world. Yes, of course the iPhone/touch, as a mobile platform, isn't in the video game portable system market and therefore not in direct competition with DS, but lessons can still be learned. Nintendo makes bank on DS from day one, and by having a ~5 year life cycle for their portable game systems (including the Game Boy line before it) they keep rolling in profit while costs lower over time.

        This keeps them price competitive, increasing their consumer base, which in term increasing developer support, which, again, helps increase the consumer base. And at about the half way mark of the life cycle (so about 2.5 years in) they start to develop the true next gen successor, but they don't release it until the 5 years or so are done, because historically at that time the increases of the consumer base start to slow down, but also because they can repeat the cycle with the new hardware, which, because it would have been designed 2 years or so BEFORE release, will have fallen in manufacturing costs by time of release. And again, from day one, Nintendo makes money off of hardware because they keep costs down.

        Apple could learn from that sort of thing, IMHO.

    • lukeb

      If devs want to do 3GS exclusives then l say let them ride that strategy out and see how far it takes them. I think it would be foolish to not offer versions of the same games without pixel shaders to owners of current gen models, but what do I know?

  • Link6746

    Considering I file a tax return that almost always gets a good amount back, I don't mind having to buy the next generation Ipod touch. I don't like some of the things Apple can do to you with the Iphone contract, so I'm sticking to my Ipod Touch and Windows Mobile Phone (which I use to create a mobile wifi network for the touch)

    'Sides, most of the better apps in the app store use hand drawn looking, stylized sprites. (especially in the RPG end).

    And you won't need a 3GS to play some of the ported classics from the Dos era or old consoles, which are some of the best things out there.

  • Link6746

    Considering I file a tax return that almost always gets a good amount back, I don't mind having to buy the next generation Ipod touch. I don't like some of the things Apple can do to you with the Iphone contract, so I'm sticking to my Ipod Touch and Windows Mobile Phone (which I use to create a mobile wifi network for the touch)

    'Sides, most of the better apps in the app store use hand drawn looking, stylized sprites. (especially in the RPG end).

    And you won't need a 3GS to play some of the ported classics from the Dos era or old consoles, which are some of the best things out there.

  • http://www.edepot.com/iphone.html edepot

    The 3GS is kinda powerful. But you need to understand the internals to really appreciate it. http://www.edepot.com/iphone.html contains a good summary of the iphone secrets.

  • http://www.edepot.com/iphone.html edepot

    The 3GS is kinda powerful. But you need to understand the internals to really appreciate it. http://www.edepot.com/iphone.html contains a good summary of the iphone secrets.